HomeMy WebLinkAbout11 05 81 PC MinutesNovember 5, 1981
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a work session on Thursday,
November 5, 1981, at 4:30 p.m. in the Planning Department Conference Room, County
Office Building, 401 McIntire Road, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members
present were Mrs. Norma A. Diehl, Chairman; Mr. David P. Bowerman, Vice -Chairman;
Mr. Kurt Gloeckner; Mr. James Skove; and Mr. Allan Kindrick. Messers. Richard
Cogan and Corwith Davis, Jr., were absent. Mr. Robert W. Tucker, Jr., Director of
Planning, represented Staff.
Mrs. Diehl called the work session to order.
Mr. Tucker explained to the Commissioners the purpose of the upcoming work sessions
on the Comprehensive Plan was to take certain, individual sections as they are
prepared by Staff, to the Commission for review, rather than to wait and present a
final document. Mr. Tucker stated that this process would avoid any massive
rewriting at the last moment. He added that none of the material was of a
controversial nature. Mr. Tucker stated further that future work sessions would
generate more input, but that initially the Commission would be seeing basically
statistical data.
Mr. Tucker said that once a drafted update was prepared, it would go to a public
hearing. He suggested that the Commission might choose to hold several public
meetings over a period of time in order to solicit public comment. He stated that
no major revision was envisioned overall, but that there would be an update of
statistical information and some shifting of land use. He said that a major change
r from the 1977 plan was not anticipated.
Mr. Gloeckner asked how any annexation move by the City might affect the Comprehensive
Plan.
Mr. Tucker replied that he had discussed this issue with Mr. Agnor and that for the
time being a resolution was expected by the end of the year or it would go to court.
Mr. Tucker added that if it does go to court, it could be years before a settlement
was reached. Mr. Tucker said that the review of the Comprehensive Plan would go
forth regardless, at this time, with a tentative schedule of late spring or early
summer for Planning Commission public hearings, so that the Board could hold public
hearings by the end of the summer for possible adoption of the updated Plan by the
end of 1982.
Mr. Skove asked whether there would be input from sources other than the Planning
Commission and whether any changes were expected in the Goals and Objectives section.
Mr. Tucker replied that public comment was expected and perhaps such input was
desirable before reaching the draft form stage. Mr. Tucker again mentioned that he
did not envision really major changes; he said that some revision of land use was
contemplated. Mr. Tucker said that one new area would be some social planning,
which he said that the City's Comprehensive Plan incorporates. Mr. Tucker also said
that the Board had indicated that due to cut -backs in Federal funding, localities
were going to be expected to pick up some of the tabs on social programs.
Mr. Skove mentioned including housing in the social planning section. Mr. Tucker said
that housing would be involved for the same reasons and would be touched on in the
Goals and Objectives section.
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Mrs. Diehl observed that the Planning Commission was left with a lot of responsi-
bility to plan future land use.
Mr. Gloeckner asked whether most of the review would be handled piece by piece at
work sessions.
Mr. Tucker replied that generally he believed so and hopefully more data could be
presented at each work session. He explained that most of the material in the
Economic and Population Projections chapter was based on projections. In addition
he described briefly the content of the Introduction, which includes purpose, State
Code and the process, plus criteria and a history of the Albemarle County Plan. He
mentioned that this would be the third revision or update of the Comprehensive Plan.
Mr. Gloeckner asked whether it would be a good idea for the Commission to go through
the present Comprehensive Plan and compare it section by section with the new update.
Mrs. Diehl added that by reviewing it in this manner the variation could be seen in
comparison with the existing Plan.
Mr. Tucker stated that some of the content from the 1971 and 1977 versions was being
incorporated into this revision.
Mrs. Diehl asked on page four what the term "structural condition survey" in point 4)
made reference to.
Mr. Tucker replied that this referred to a windshield survey that was made to
determine the condition of existing structures in the county, one purpose being
to pinpoint blighted areas, dilapidated urban areas for example, for renovation
and upgrading. He added that such extreme areas did not exist locally.
Mr. Tucker briefly described how the Plan would be printed, mentioning that it might
have a notebook format such as that used by the Thomas Jefferson Planning District
Commission, which would allow insertion of amendments, for use by the Board of
Supervisors and Planning Commissioners. He said that a less expensive edition might
be printed for sale to the public. Mr. Tucker also stated that an improvement on
graphics was planned, with more fold -outs, better color and illustrations.
Mrs. Diehl observed that the current maps were too small to be very useful.
Mr. Tucker agreed and mentioned that the 1971 version was better and more readable
than the last 1977 revision.
Mr. Tucker said that the Commission would see the Table of Contents at its next work
session.
Mrs. Diehl asked what "Any public area, facility ..." referred to in the last
paragraph of page three of the Introduction. Mr. Tucker replied that it could refer
to a park, a sewage treatment plant, a school, community center - any facility
located on publicly owned land.
Mr. Kindrick asked if this included the unoccupied fringe area around PUD's, which
he stated were such a maintenance problem.
Mr. Tucker replied that it did not include this land, which is common area to be
maintained by homeowners of the PUD. He added that it could be called public in the
sense that all the residents of the subdivision had access to it and the right to use
it.
Mr. Tucker then proceeded to explain the analysis in the METHODOLOGY section,
explaining that the basic industries were those producing products to be sold
outside of the locality and bringing money in. Non -basic industries, he continued,
were those of a service nature, providing support to the basic employment sector.
Mrs. Diehl asked how the figures from the 1980 Census were tied in.
Mr. Tucker replied that these figures were not yet available. He explained that
the Virginia Employment Commission provided employment figures.
Mr. Skove asked if the percentages provided in the ECONOMIC ASSUMPTIONS section
were local.
Mr. Tucker replied that these percentages represented both localities, the City and
the County. Outlying counts are separate, he indicated. Mr. Tucker observed that
this area is basically sound economically. Mr. Tucker pointed out that fortunately
this area was well -diversified and not bound to one type of industry. He continued
that this was partly due to high local employment by the State through the University.
Mr. Tucker said that the general economic slump experienced by the Country was felt
to a lesser degree in this area and at a later point than in other parts of the nation.
Mr. Tucker also observed that some of the earlier KDA projections were very high.
When Mr. Gloeckner wondered why this was so, Mr. Tucker explained that a lot of
the figures given depend on the individual interpreting the data. He added that
some unforeseen change could make a drastic alteration to the Plan, such as General
Electric moving 600 or 1000 people into the area.
Mr. Gloeckner observed that the G.E. plant was to have been a showplace, a head
engineering office, locating here due to the desirable working conditions, and due to
being one hour away by plane to New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and even closer to
Washington. Mr. Gloeckner said that when one or two well-known companies move into
a new area, other industries are attracted to it. He added that when this happens,
local land use has to be carefully considered.
Mrs. Diehl remarked that in basic versus non -basic sectors, manufacturing makes
the impact.
Mr. Gloeckner observed that local government functions were going to be heavier
due to Federal cuts.
Mr. Tucker responded that it might still be a little too early to know.
Mr. Gloeckner predicted that the University would increase its employment, especially
the medical center.
Mrs. Diehl observed that according to the State employment figures, there would
not be more than a 1.5 percent increase. She asked whether this included the
University, and Mr. Tucker replied that it did.
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Mr. Bowerman observed that he did not believe that much more growth should be
expected from the University, the medical center being the exception. He said
that the dramatic past increase at the University was due certainly in part to
when it went co-educational and he doubted that anything like that would happen
again.
Mr. Gloeckner said that he had meant auxiliary University uses would increase,
not student growth.
Mr. Skove concurred, giving Tayloe Murphy as an example of a University -associated
institute that would probably continue to grow. Mr. Skove added that during the
last decade student growth had accounted for a high percentage of the population
increase, specifically 5,000 between 1970 and 1980. He agreed with Mr. Bowerman
that this increase would not be repeated, as it was due in large part to the
University going co-ed.
Mrs. Diehl asked about the figure on page nine, 47.6 percent growth in population
from 1970 to 1980, whether this was inflated by about a third, based on the student
growth.
Mr. Skove said that actually growth in the urban area, including Charlottesville
and Albemarle, was more like twenty-four percent, with students, or fourteen to
fifteen percent without students, in the last decade.
Mrs. Diehl asked how this correlated with the figures on page nine.
Mr. Tucker said that probably this figure of 47.6 should be lower.
Mr. Skove asked to take exception to some of the methodology, explaining that he
believed basing population growth on employment growth could have certain pitfalls.
He said that some of this growth had taken place in outlying counties such as
Fluvanna and Greene, rather than exclusively in Albemarle. He said that in his
opinion the figures for the year 2000 were high and suggested that a larger
jurisdiction should be used.
Mrs. Diehl asked whether there was any data on the number of employees coming into
the County from other localities. It was determined that it would take about two
years to get this information from the 1980 Census.
Mr. Gloeckner remarked that he could well believe that increases would occur in
other counties because of the expense of living in Albemarle. Mrs. Diehl agreed,
saying that access made it convenient to live elsewhere and commute into the County
for employment. There was a general concensus that commuting considerable mileage
was no longer necessarily considered a hardship.
Mr. Bowerman observed that he found it difficult to believe that much more basic
industry would come to this area, which was the factor that caused dramatic population
increases along with creating jobs in the service sector. Mr. Bowerman said that he
saw some trend from the types of site plans and subdivisions coming before the
Commission toward a retirement population in this area. Mr. Bowerman added that all
of the population projections, however, were based on the continuing growth of basic
industry and manufacturing, which he could not believe would occur.
Mr. Tucker responded that it was very difficult to assess what sort of basic
industries might prompt other related industries to locate here, similar or service-
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oriented to already established industry in the area.
Mr. Bowerman said that an example of his point was the company R. Donnelly, a
printer/publisher that decided not to locate here. He said that really he did not
see economic advantages that might attract such industry. Mr. Bowerman stated that
in the case of his company, Money Market Directories, the decision to locate here
was based on the aesthetics of the community because all the money his company
generated was from outside of this area and the company's location was immaterial.
Mr. Tucker gave some background on the case of the Donnelly company, which he said
involved several variables, several needs that could not be provided, such as rail
service, paper products and specific zoning which did not exist. Mr. Tucker said
that to his knowledge local government was not involved in any attempt to help this
company find a suitable local site.
Mr. Bowerman said that his feeling, based on the last two Comprehensive Plans and
the Zoning Ordinance, was that sentiment in this community, maybe about fifty-one
percent, was to not encourage industry, rezoning, railroad sidings. He pointed to
an industrial park that remained undeveloped. Therefore, he was dubious how to
project much additional growth. He believed that 1,600 a year increase was pretty
low, which was the figure given in the data.
Mr. Skove said that compared to other parts of the country and State, it was high
or faster growth.
Mr. Bowerman asked, then, what in this community was going to prompt such an
increase, if it was generally accepted that additional basic industry was unlikely.
Mr. Tucker replied that it could be several factors, including the hospital, General
Electric.
Mrs. Diehl cited an article recently on lower employment in Albemarle, which was
discouraging to new industry, which would have to pull employees from outside areas.
Mr. Tucker concurred with this concept of drawing employees from other localities
or, he mentioned, as in the case of General Electric, relocating existing employees
and bringing them into the area. Mr. Tucker said that it depended also on the type
of industry, and often a company would bring in its own skilled workers.
Mr. Bowerman made the point that there was an outflow of locally educated people who
were forced to go elsewhere because they could not find adequate employment here.
He added that there was a considerable amount of underemployment in the area - cases
of overqualified, educated, skilled people working beneath their level of preparation
simply out of a desire to live in this area. Mr. Bowerman said that this factor had
not even been measured.
Mr. Gloeckner said that simultaneously students educated here create pressure for
jobs because they want to stay.
Mrs. Diehl asked how many of the retirement site plans had actually gone forth.
It was determined that Branchlands and Ednam would proceed as retirement develop-
ments. Mr. Bowerman said that he was intrigued by this possible trend and stated
that moderately priced retirement housing should attract interested people to this
area. It was generally discussed that this area offered cultural interests, good
medical services, and convenient access to Washington.
Mrs. Diehl asked whether the retirement segment of the population was significant.
to a
Mr. Tucker replied that he did not believe it was significant enough of a factor
at this time to make an impact on the revision, but that in five years it might
well be.
Mr. Kindrick mentioned the development at Hickory Ridge, consisting of twelve or
fifteen houses designed for retirement. Mr. Bowerman mentioned also Henderson
Heywood's development next to Greencroft, which Mr. Tucker said is for retirement.
Mr. Bowerman and Mr. Gloeckner remarked that this was going to be a significant
trend. Mr. Tucker pointed out that even currently in conventional subdivisions
there was a certain percentage of retired persons purchasing homes, although they
were not tailored to the retirement community.
Mr. Bowerman said that this represented a basic industry because these retired
individuals were on fixed pension income from outside the area. Mr. Skove and
Mr. Tucker concurred.
Mr. Gloeckner observed that Staff projections seemed to be pretty much on target.
Mr. Skove said that he had no problem with the figures before 1990, but that he still
believed the projections between 1990 and the year 2000 were awfully high. He said
that it was just a much faster rate of growth than that predicted for the rest of
the State and the nation. He again mentioned the employment factor, that he suspected
some of the commuter population from other counties might have affected this figure.
Mr. Tucker said that Staff would take another look at the data before the next work
session.
Mr. Kindrick suggested that a telephone survey of local industries might yield
information on what percentage of local employees commuted from nearby counties.
Mr. Bowerman asked what the consequences were from either over -or under -projecting
the population.
Mr. Tucker responded that he did not feel very strongly about being locked into a
projection because of the five-year review which allows readjustment for events and
changes that could not have been predicted. He said that if something dramatic
happened like an industry moving in with ten or twenty thousand employees within
five years, it could present a serious problem. However, Mr. Tucker continued, with
the kind of projections given in this section community facilities were in good
shape either way, with the safety valve of another review every five years. He said
that if a basic industry moved in with thousands of employees, it would spawn service
industries at a ratio of something like two and a half times the initial influx. This
then would have a tremendous impact, he stated.
Mr. Tucker said that if you overprojected, you might make road improvements, for
example, that would perhaps turn out to be unnecessary. He added, however, that
these growth projections were not of a nature to be way out of line.
Mr. Bowerman stated that being in five year increments, there was always room for
a re-evaluation.
Mr. Gloeckner said that in overprojecting,jurisdictional boundaries of the Service
Authority might tend to increase.
Mr. Bowerman asked if the County used these population projections as a basis for
revenue predictions. Mr. Tucker replied that it did.
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Mr. Skove observed that the danger to him in overprojecting growth was that you
might overestimate the size of the necessary growth areas. Mr. Bowerman added that
then you had to be concerned with sewer and roads.
Mr. Tucker said that this problem had come about with the 1971 Plan - such as
16,000 population in Keswick.
Mr. Bowerman said that his concern about population centered on the costs to provide
services and the impact on Albemarle County's tax structure.
Mr. Gloeckner said that he expected the pendulum to swing again in the other direction.
He said that people would soon tire of the pot holes and lack of road repair; he
said that complaints about the Highway Department had been heard for the last few
years. He predicted that at some point people will accept an increase in gasoline
tax to bring in the revenue necessary to make repairs. Mr. Gloeckner said that
between the State Planning Department budget and Staff projections, he believed
the picture to be fairly accurate.
Mr. Skove said that from what he understood the next State estimates were expected
to be even lower. He added that there was still an increase, but less than previously
projected.
Mr. Bowerman asked how many lots had been approved and recorded.
Mr. Tucker replied that the Commission was going to be requested to adopt a
Resolution of Intent to amend the Subdivision Ordinance to put a time limit of
18 months on subdivisions. At the present time, Mr. Tucker explained, they were
v%Jr good indefinitely, even with the new zoning.
Mr. Gloeckner observed that he thought you had to be actively working on the
property.
Mr. Tucker replied that this was true now, with the adoption of the new Zoning
Ordinance.
Mr. Bowerman asked how much time was allowed once construction began.
Mr. Tucker explained that it was a question of allowing 18 months in which to have the
County sign plats,unrelated to the start of construction. He said that final plats
expire if not recorded within six months of County signature but there was no
limitation on the time period between Commission approval and compliance with any
conditions of approval for signature of the plat.
Mr. Gloeckner remarked that he could see possible problems with 18 months. He said
that in some cases there were delays and snags with government agencies, the Highway
Department, etc. Mr. Gloeckner suggested that not all the agencies play by the same
rules. He added that getting right-of-ways can take a lot of time.
Returning to discussion of upcoming work sessions on the Comprehensive Plan review,
Mr. Tucker asked the Commissioners whether the afternoon meetings were more
convenient than at the end of regularly scheduled Tuesday evening meetings.
Mr. Bowerman and Mrs. Diehl agreed that 4:30 p.m. was generally a workable hour for
them. Mr. Skove remarked on his preference for afternoon instead of late evening
sessions. Mrs. Diehl observed that Richard Cogan and Mike Davis had difficulty with
afternoon meetings.
It was ascertained that generally the work sessions would be scheduled for
afternoons or fifth Tuesday evenings or unscheduled Tuesday evenings in the
future.
Mrs. Diehl said that the Commission had been asked by Kat Imhoff, Planner, to
express a preference for which meeting room in the new County Office Building
to hold their meetings. It was determined that Meeting Room 5/6 was more suitable
for review of site plans and subdivision plats and Meeting Room 7, the Board room,
would be used for public hearings on rezoning and special use permit applications.
The work session adjourned at 6:00 p„m.
t W. Tucker, Jr., Se
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