HomeMy WebLinkAbout10 27 2009 PC MinutesAlbemarle County Planning Commission
October 27, 2009
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing and meeting on Tuesday, October 27,
2009, at 6:00 p.m., at the County Office Building, Lane Auditorium, Second Floor, 401 McIntire Road,
Charlottesville, Virginia.
Members attending were Don Franco, Marcia Joseph, Calvin Morris, Linda Porterfield, Bill Edgerton, and
Thomas Loach, Vice Chair. Absent was Eric Strucko, Chairman. Julia Monteith, AICP, non -voting
representative for the University of Virginia was present.
Other officials present were Elaine Echols, Principal Planner; Judy Wiegand, Senior Planner, David
Benish, Chief of Planning; Wayne Cilimberg, Director of Planning and Greg Kamptner, Deputy County
Attorney.
Call to Order and Establish Quorum:
Mr. Loach called the regular meeting to order at 6:06 p.m. and established a quorum.
Other Matters Not Listed on the Agenda from the Public:
Mr. Loach invited comment from the public on other matters not listed on the agenda.
Neil Williamson, with Free Enterprise Forum, noted that last week during the issue of setbacks he raised
the issue with regard to fewer structural fires meaning fewer structures. Mr. Loach remarked of the desire
for increased building specifications for houses that are closer together and Mr. Edgerton replied that
there was no enabling legislation for that. In thinking about this he wanted to make sure that the position
that he had about this is clear. If this Commission is concerned about the safety of setbacks he suggested
that they deal with them in a manner that makes them safe. They do not have control over the
International Building Code, but perhaps they should look at the entire growth management plan. They
have been pushing density. If these are real fire hazards and they have no fire fighting ability or no fire
fighting background to question anything that Mr. Loach raised and if this is a serious issue he thought
that it needs to be seriously addressed and he looked forward to hearing from the Fire Department on
that issue.
There being no further comments, the meeting moved to the next item.
Public Hearing:
CPA-2005-00010 Public Hearing on the Final Draft Places29 Master Plan
Amend the Land Use Plan section of the Albemarle County Comprehensive Plan by replacing the existing
profiles of Neighborhood 1, Neighborhood 2, the Community of Hollymead and the Community of Piney
Mountain with the Places29 Master Plan, which establishes new land use policies, guidelines,
recommendations, goals and strategies for future development within the master plan area. The master
plan would establish the following for the master plan area: a vision for the area and guiding principles;
land use designations and place types such as neighborhood service centers, community centers,
destination centers, uptown, mixed use areas, employment areas and residential areas; a plan for the
transportation network and its integration with the land uses; a plan for providing and supporting
community facilities and services; design guidelines for the entrance corridors and boundaries; and a plan
for implementing the master plan. A copy of the full text of the Places 29 Master Plan is on file in the
office of the Clerk of the Board of Supervisors and in the Department of Community Development, County
Office Building, 401 McIntire Road, Charlottesville, Virginia. (Judy Wiegand)
Mr. Loach noted that this was the final public hearing on the Places29 Final Draft Master Plan.
Mr. Benish presented a PowerPoint presentation and outlined the background of the Places29 Final Draft
Master Plan, as follows.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
❖ Covers four (4) Development Area neighborhoods
❖ Coordinated land use plan and transportation plan
❖ A "vision" Plan: will take a long time for the vision identified in this Plan to be realized. The
ultimate concept shown in the plan will take a very long time to develop in this area longer than
one would realize in a 20-year time frame.
The Vision — Land Use
Albemarle County's four Northern Development Areas will feature compact development consisting of
residential and employment neighborhoods that are organized around centers. These neighborhoods and
their centers will be pedestrian -oriented and mixed -use; they will offer a variety of housing choices,
retail environments, office types, and employment opportunities. They will be connected by an attractive,
efficient, and accessible multimodal transportation system. Integrated into this urban -style
development, parks and open spaces will provide a sense of respite and contribute to an overall
excellent quality of life.
Major Concepts of Plan
1. Coordinates land use and transportation to serve the Places29 area and regional traffic.
2. Recommends walkable neighborhoods with centers/amenities
3. The Plan recommends a regional, multimodal transportation network to serve drivers,
pedestrians, bicyclists, and transit users.
4. Preserves open space and provides connections between these open spaces.
5. Future needs for schools, libraries, and other facilities have been included.
6. Establishes two Priorities areas to guide future public investments and land use decisions.
7. Minimize disruption of existing businesses, provides opportunities for redevelopment, and
increases business vitality.
8. The multimodal transportation improvements are needed whether or not there is a Master Plan.
Even if funding is not available for all of the transportation projects, the area will still benefit from
the pattern of mixed land uses, walkable neighborhoods, and transportation options.
The master planning process for Places29 also considered various expansion requests and opportunities.
At this point in time the Planning Commission has not recommended any of those, but did provide for an
option for expansion for public comment on during this public review process. This is particularly for Area
2 or this expansion area at the southern end of Hollymead. The Commission has received most of the
comments staff has received to date, which have generally been negative towards this expansion.
Staff has received from the Planning Commission and various stakeholder reviewers some public
comments. Staff has also found some typos and suggestions for clarifying sections of the plan that are
mostly non substantive and are working towards making those corrections.
Mr. Edgerton arrived at 6:06 p.m.
Mr. Loach opened the public hearing and invited public comment.
Henry Wineschenk, owner of Express Car Wash on Route 29, made the following comments.
+ He was a founding member of the North Charlottesville Business Council and a 30-year resident
of Albemarle County. He had an important hand behind the scenes in making sure that the
current US 29 has sidewalks, green strips along the curbs and most importantly a grassed
median strip with trees. He has followed Places29 with keen interest and applauds the concept
of combining land use planning with transportation planning. It just makes sense. Specifically he
thought that it was a good idea to develop roads that run parallel to US 29 and further improving
connectivity between neighborhoods and commercial properties. He could also envision the
gradual transformation of US 29 from a suburban commercial strip to a more urbanized area with
medium raised buildings immediately adjacent to the sidewalks combining residential and
commercial use.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
• The intent obviously is to create a high quality pedestrian friendly residential area with shopping
on the street level. However, he found a major inconsistency in the Places29 proposal when it
comes to US 29. Creating grade -separated interchanges has the exact opposite effect to a
desired result. This part of the plan is steeply flawed. Rather than wanting to speed up the traffic
with grade -separated interchanges one would want to calm the traffic down. Lower speed limits
than the currently posted 45 miles per hour would make sense. Pedestrian crossing with strips
about every 300' would be necessary to make the plan work. Traffic needs to be calmed down
and not speeded up if they are serious about people living in attractive condos and apartments
there.
The last thing they want to do is to start to build an express way creating a chasm between both
sides of US 29 and thereby dooming any chance of developing an attractive urban area with a
high quality of life. Places29 needs to be revised so as to enhance the urban boulevard concept
which means frequent at -grade pedestrian crossings, dedicated bus and bicycle lanes and
eliminating all underpasses. This is no place for an urban express way, which have been
discredited as far back as the early '60's for cutting neighborhoods in half and converting the
adjacent areas into slums. He urged the Commission to eliminate the grade -separated
interchanges from the plan.
Neil Williamson, with the Free Enterprise Forum, said that they have been engaged in discussions about
Places29 since the beginning.
• They are appreciative of that opportunity and somewhat disappointed that they cannot fully
endorse this plan. They hear tonight through the presentation that the transportation plan needs
to go forward regardless of the land use plan. He was of the opinion that localities should have
strong land use policies and those should be discussed. Every time he has a discussion about
Places29 it is not about the land use policy but about the transportation issues. He really thought
that the land use should be first and foremost a local decision and transportation planning should
be a more regional decision.
• He believed that the community master planning steering committee should include a cross
section of the community. He was very concerned about a lack of excitement about the plan
internal to the neighborhoods. One business group, the NCBC, brought forward crosswalks that
this Commission asked to be included in the plan rendering. He searched the plan and has not
found them. It is a chance that it is in there since it is a very big plan. But he was disappointed
that an idea that came forward from the community did not get at least consideration by the
Commission, included or specifically denied perhaps for good reasons. There is a lot of limited
discussion about the expansion of the growth areas. All the discussions that he has heard are
about growth area 2. He had heard very little about growth area 1 and 3 and nothing about 4.
• They believe that realistic timelines should be included as part of the plan. This is one of their big
issues. Places29 is pretty much a kitchen sink approach. The way it is being phrased now is that
this is a vision document and not a 20-year planning document. He had promised folks that he
would ask the Commission if anyone thought that the projects listed in Places29 a majority of
them would be started in 20 years. He was hopeful in their discussion they can get an answer for
that. He obviously was very pessimistic about that reality. There has been a lot of hard work put
into this plan. He was appreciative of this work and did not want to throw out the work. He felt
they need to have a realistic plan and starting with the big five as Mr. Benish suggested was a
good start.
Carter Myers, Albemarle resident and owner of Colonial Auto Center, pointed out that CMA Properties
owns the land on 29 all the way back to Berkmar Drive. He made the following comments.
• The transportation plan really needs some work. He looked at Places29 and thought that there
were some good things. He liked the idea of parallel roads, but felt that some people have not
thought through the interchange aspect. The interchanges cannot be designed or built the way
they are proposed. The way the interchanges are proposed is causing some crazy movements.
One is a road that comes behind their showroom where people are and up through some storage
sheds owned by L.F. Wood and on up the hill. That is one of the way they would make the
interchanges work without left and right turns. Those interchanges have had public hearings
since 1986 when there was a big public hearing on Rio Road. There was another public hearing
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
in 1990 and 1994. Tonight he had a copy of the 1994 book. Every person's comment on all
three hearings indicated if they tried to build those interchanges from a political point of view the
public hearing would consume all of those books again. He felt that the proposal put the roads in
the wrong places. Therefore, he felt that the transportation plan needs a lot of work. The
interchanges would be a disaster.
+ They need to keep as much commercial business as they can in Albemarle County. Looking at
land use they need keep the commercial area from Barracks Road to the Airport/Hollymead area
a viable shopping area. They are losing many people to Short Pump and other areas. He asked
that the county encourage their commercial businesses to keep places where people can do
business here in Albemarle County.
• They need to keep a good commercial base. If they don't have a good commercial base here the
tax dollars will have to be raised for the residents. The ratio of tax dollars on residency to
commercial is not imbalanced. He asked that they encourage some good commercial
businesses to pay more taxes so that they can fund the schools and other things needed.
Lloyd Wood, resident of Albemarle County for all his life and current President of the North Charlottesville
Business Council, said that since the 1940's he had been traveling from Earlysville to town on Route 29.
Since that time he had seen those two lanes go to where it is now with the median strip and pretty Oak
trees grow to 8 lanes plus. He had seen the entire area along Route 29 grow from nothing to now the
economic engine that runs the County of Albemarle and the shopping area of the whole region. He asked
to share some important facts:
The 29 North Corridor now generates 45 percent of Albemarle's total annual local tax revenue.
This is about $25,000 per acre and only takes up about 2 percent in land area. It supports about
20,000 jobs. It provides over 800 million dollars in annual payroll to the community. It produces
over 33 million dollars in total tax revenue to the surrounding area.
+ Places29 clearly proposes US 29 to be an expressway. It proposes grade -separated
interchanges. An example is Hydraulic Road, Rio Road, Airport Road and others.
+ Places29 proposes several good things such as the expansion of Hillsdale, the expansion of the
exit at 250 Bypass in front of Best Buy and others. This will provide a system of parallel roads to
aid our local citizens.
+ Places29 main purpose should be to provide a transportation system that is safe and user friendly
for our local and regional citizens. He did not believe that an express way with grade -separated
interchanges can serve our community well.
Jim Cannon, resident of the Whitehall District, commended the Planning Commission for their service.
He noted that he traveled 29 North on a daily basis. He backed up what Mr. Carter and Mr. Wood had
already said. He asked the Commission to pay attention in their decision to the commercial disruption
that this plan's implementation is going to cause because this area is one of Albemarle's most productive
revenue producers both in terms of business revenue and tax revenue. It is a big footprint and the plan
covers a huge area. There are several unintended consequences. First businesses would have to be
demolished or undergo major renovation to accommodate the change in the topography. Another
implication that they need to pay attention to is that businesses need to stay in place. If a business loses
their visibility to their customers then they lose their accessibility as well. Having been in the military he
had worked in northern Virginia and hoped that northern Virginia does not happen to this area. He saw
this as a replay of Route 50 through Arlington County. That major highway is the driver. All anyone
would have to do is live next to it to see what will happen. He asked that the Commission consider the
proposal's impact on businesses and what would be the impact on tax revenue if they did not have the
businesses there.
Tom Fiume, small business owner in Albemarle County, said he was present to address the impacts of
the interchanges and the expressway included in this plan on the small business community.
• The focus of his business was working with business owners to assist them in determining the
market value of their business to help develop exit planning strategies and help sell their
businesses when the time comes. Consequently over the last 13 years he has worked with
dozens of businesses up and down the 29 Corridor from Lynchburg to Culpeper. The majority of
*4ftW those have been in Albemarle County including many in every one of the major shopping centers.
Most of those have been family owned businesses employing 5 up to 20 people. They are locally
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
owned sound businesses that contribute greatly to the economic vitality of our entire community
through the jobs they provide, the business and payroll taxes they pay, the shopping diversity and
itaw personal service and local character they offer our residents and visitors. Most of these
businesses operate on very small margins. Their rents are high. The taxes they pay are high. It
is a very competitive business environment. This plan would destroy many of these businesses.
The disruption and customer accessibility during the construction phase of this plan even if it
were to affect only 10 percent of their revenues would put many of them under. In their office
they see 2 to 3 PML's every week from businesses in this community. They know their business
models, revenue streams, expenses and see their earnings. They are low margin. They have to
maintain their revenues and grow them to continue to be successful. Besides the disruption
during the construction phase this expressway would bifurcate Albemarle County's main street.
Once implemented the shoppers would not have the easy access to the diversity of shops and
businesses in the course of a trip that they do now. They will find other places to do their
shopping.
• The theory that these interchanges and expressway would create new commercial areas may
actually be true, but only after the destruction of many existing locally owned business and the
loss of many jobs. He would guess that the replacement businesses would not be locally owned,
but will be larger national companies and franchises that are not concerned with the fabric,
beauty and character of Albemarle County. The business owners along this Corridor that he
talked to do not understand this plan, have not been involved in the process and have seen
headlines in the paper and snips on the news. When it is explained to them they cannot believe
that this is what is being considered. Many think that it is preposterous that the Commission and
the county would consider destroying the vitality of the main business district by putting an
expressway down Route 29.
• Having attended many meetings over the years he felt that the consultants do not understand the
impact on the small business community and have failed to consider the economic consequences
of this plan. He urged the Commission not to pass the portions of the plan that include the
interchanges and the expressway.
Chris Tyler, owner of hotel on 29 Corridor, asked what doctors are told. First do no harm. He believed
this plan does major harm to the 29 Corridor and primarily the businesses. It is his understanding that
between 75 and 80 percent of all of the traffic on the 29 Corridor is local. Those people go there primarily
to shop there and use the services and assets that the 29 Corridor gives. This plan will directly affect the
businesses on the 29 Corridor adversely. It will lower the revenue produced and therefore lower the tax
base that the county has to work with. He could assure them that the residents of Albemarle County will
not be pleased with the results that come up. He strongly urged the Commission not to pass this plan.
Timothy Hulbert said that he worked for the Charlottesville Regional Chamber of Commerce who was the
largest and longest tenure business organization in the community with 1,000 member enterprises. That
includes many members along the US 29 North route. He echoed some of the comments they provided
to the Board of Supervisors earlier in the year. There are certain parts of the 29 Plan which they great
respect for and support. Most noticeably is the Berkmar Extended Road including a bridge over the
South Fork Rivanna River and continuing up to Hollymead. That is an excellent design as is a Hillsdale
Extended. But they cannot support a design for the main corridor that is fundamentally flawed and
premised upon moving 7,000 vehicles of the daily 55,000 vehicles at Hydraulic through the center part of
the community while taking the 48,000 vehicles, which are mostly residents, and pushing them away from
the main commercial's boulevard of our community. As folks earlier said there are 40,000 jobs along that
corridor and 800 million dollars each year that accounts for a large chunk of the county's revenue.
Grade -separated interchanges will be very disruptive of that commercial boulevard design. They think
that the plan is fundamentally flawed in trying to have a commercial boulevard and an expressway at the
same time. The two uses are not compatible no matter how many pretty pictures they draw. Finally, they
continue to raise concerns that the design is in conflict with their own study. In 2003 the 29 H 250
Studies said that a grade -separated interchange at Hydraulic and US 29 would cost 89 million dollars.
The same design is listed in this plan as 33 million dollars. That is really wrong. The 2003 piece had the
engineering and design alone at 37 million.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
Wendell Wood said that he went into business in 1960 on US 29 and has been actively developing there
for many years. He expressed his confusion in why they hired consultants who suggested what needed
to be done primarily for land use expansion areas that they chose to not approve along Route 29 for
growth. The consultants and county staff recommended inclusion of these expansion areas, but yet they
were taken out. He heard no one oppose Berkmar Extended. They seem to want that. But they did not
want to do anything to the land use. To the best of his knowledge there is no money. The State of
Virginia Highway Department says that they have no money. The county has no money. They are not
going to get that road built, which he believed they want. He believed the Planning Commission is on
record that they like the transportation plan. He felt that it was a little disingenuous to say that when they
know it can't happen without money. He reminded them that the 8 and 12 lanes of highway in front of
Hollymead Town Center he built for 11 million dollars. Berkmar Drive is not going to be built unless the
adjoining property owners build it. Being one of those he knew that it was not going to be built if the land
plan does not go along with it. They are not treating this in the real world if they don't start some process
that is going to make it happen. NGIC are coming and are in that area. The Commission has professed
for years to put the growth where they work, sleep, go to school and keep them off the roads. And yet
they chose to take land and not put in this area that is fully furnished with public utilities, the best highway
system in the county, generally existing neighborhoods and schools and chose not to put it in your growth
area. It is the area with the largest population in the county with the largest amount of jobs. They refuse
to add this land to the growth area that is already served by public water, sewer and roads. He was
baffled how they can take a position like that.
Morgan Butler, on behalf of the Southern Environmental Law Center, said that for all of the accolades our
area received a common caveat pointed to by residents and visitors alike is the sprawling 29 Corridor.
Transforming this part of the county into a more appealing and functional growth area that can also
generate sustainable economic growth is a big challenge. But it is also a critical one for the county to
undertake. He made the following comments.
• The first step is getting a plan in place that sets forth that vision and then charts the course for
getting there. Places29 embodies an integrated approach to land use and transportation planning
that is long overdue. The solution it proposes in the form of the stronger road networks, grade -
separated interchanges and transportation efficient land use patterns all compliment and build on
one another. They also address both local and regional traffic instead of focusing on one with the
exclusion of the other. As a result these solutions are able to maximize limited transportation
funding in sharp contrast to all or nothing proposals like the Western Bypass that ignore the vast
majority of trips on 29 and would leave 29 in failing state of congestion.
• There appears to be some misunderstanding that the master plan generates the need for a
number of new transportation projects. This is to the contrary because many of the projects
address the backlog of unmet needs that already exist today and all but one project are needed
just to accommodate the development that will occur in this area regardless of whether Places29
is adopted or not. The plan simply organizes the different needs and integrates them with a land
use form that contributes to and compliments the overall transportation network. Rather than
increasing transportation costs this approach helps to reduce them. As a final point he asked
reiterated a point that they have made repeatedly throughout the course of the Master Plan's
development.
+ Achieving the plan's long term vision requires holding the line on growth area boundaries making
sure that no more large scale retail uses are added to the Corridor at this time. They believe that
the Hollymead South Expansion proposal will do far more harm than good for the reasons they
have outlined before. They applaud the county for tackling such an important endeavor. They
thank the staff members of the county, TJPDC and VDOT as well as all of the local residents
many of whom that are present tonight that have worked so hard on this plan. He thanked the
Commission for their time in reviewing the plan and strongly urged them to forward the plan to the
Board of Supervisors with their recommendation for approval.
Jeff Werner, with Piedmont Environmental Council, encouraged the Planning Commission to endorse
Places 29 and send it on to the Board of Supervisors for continued refinement and hopefully adoption and
implementation. Like many other organizations and local residents since the inception of Places29 the
PEC has been involved in the development of this plan. They endorse the concepts developed in the
proposed prioritization of infrastructure improvements. They support the concept of an integrated
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
transportation network with parallel and interconnected streets. They support a long range plan that
provides more transit options. They support a land use plan that is coordinated with the transportation
plan. They also support maintaining the current rural area south of the Hollymead Town Center and ask
that they not include in Places29 a plan to reduce the size of the rural area. To have a viable local
economy they need a local transportation network that works. People need to get to businesses and to
destinations in the Corridor not by pass them. Places 29 is a plan to accomplish this. To maintain the 29
Corridor as a desirable destination doing nothing is simply not an option. Even VDOT has told us that a
300 million dollar Western Bypass will not improve traffic within the commercial corridor. However,
Places 29 offers a series of incremental and arguably more affordable solutions that will. People and new
businesses relocate to this community because of the quality of life and the available amenities. Every
year some publication or another announces this area as the number one place to live. It is the number
one place to retire. Even last week it was the number one place to start a business, which is amazing.
Good planning brings good results. If Places 29 is nothing else it is a plan to keep the growth area a
viable place to live, shop, work and even run a business.
Bob Hodous, resident of Charlottesville for 42 years, noted that he worked with Free Enterprise Forum
and the Chamber of commerce but was speaking on his own. It was just mentioned that VDOT was
against the Western Bypass. But if they look at what VDOT has proposed their statement is that the
Western Bypass as previously considered will not work. But that is because of where it ends. They have
suggested that they would like to see Leonard Sandridge Drive extended to hook in at some point so it
could go with Berkmar Drive assuming it is extended including across the reservoir. So the indication that
VDOT would be in favor in what is proposed and against a bypass is absolutely wrong. They also
indicated that since people appeared to be against the Western Bypass they would prefer an Eastern
Bypass. That is now being questioned because of the people in the eastern part of the county. If they
look at the information with respect to congestion, accidents and difficulty in getting in through there are
two places all up and down 29 where there are problems. It is in Gainesville before getting on 66 and
Charlottesville and Albemarle County between the 250 Bypass and Ruckersville. The idea that a bypass
has been booted by VDOT is absolutely wrong. He questioned how they think the owners of a
prosperous shopping center or owners of a business located at an intersection are going to be willing to
give away the land that is going to ruin their business for an interchange. He felt that this plan on a
transportation basis is greatly flawed and needs to be reconsidered.
Mark Green, developer of Rivanna Plaza, noted that Charlottesville was not the number 1 place to start a
business but 19 out of 20 on that particular list. He was the recent person that was subjected to the land
use thoughts on developing the Rivanna Plaza site. They were forced to look at inter -parcel connections
where it really did not make sense for the property and created a ton of problems in terms of how they
developed the site. They were lucky and ultimately able to come up with a solution that satisfied VDOT,
the county, their neighbors and the economic constraints on the property. It is just wishful thinking that all
the property owners will be willing to go along with the entire transportation plan. It may be possible in 50
years to get all of that done. But in the meantime they will have a patchwork of partially completed
connections that will never serve anybody's purpose. Like it or not US 29 is the main street in Albemarle.
Anything they do to increase the through traffic is going to decrease the ability of the residents in the area
to get to the businesses they want to or to make turns to get on and off 29. Closing access from certain
properties and creating overpasses just reduces people's ability to get around. He suggested that the
politically bold thing would be to create a bypass but understand the political ramifications of that. In
meantime they would subject everybody in the county that needs to make local trips to the construction
and reduced access to the properties they want to get to.
Roy Van Duran, owner of property at Hollymead Town Center, said that he would speak to the zoning
side. In reading the documents and seeing the pictures of high density it seems that the goal is to
intensity the density of the existing commercial land. When developers come before this board and say
that they would like to increase the density there is nothing in this document that makes that path possible
other than endless hearings and zoning changes. To make the zoning more palatable it might be good to
look at a global statement or path to make greater density possible. But with density there comes traffic.
If they have a parcel right now only approved for 50,000 square feet, but in the ideal world they would like
*4w to put in 200,000 square feet there is a traffic impact. This board has to address the fact that they either
have density or they accept the traffic. They can't have it both ways with density and no people.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
There being no further public comment, Mr. Loach closed the public hearing to bring the matter before the
Planning Commission for discussion and action.
Mr. Morris noted that it came over loud and clear especially from the business community that there is a
concern about disrupting the ability for people to get off of and on to 29 and into the businesses that
currently are there. This is a problem they have addressed a number of times and is one they have to
look at.
Mr. Franco agreed with Mr. Morris that it was clear that what they had heard from the business
community one of the phrases he had heard a number of times to first do no harm. He heard a lot of the
business community say that it is going to do harm to the businesses along Route 29. They need to
figure out how they are going to reduce or eliminate that impact. Also from some of the previous
discussions he has had with residents he still wonders how some of the interconnections and the parallel
roads through the neighborhoods is going to work. Recently they have worked with Arden Place in
Woodbrook where he felt they made the right decision there not to connect the roads and create these
parallel road networks. At the last hearing there was a resident of Berkley and some of the other
locations where they are going to be talking about in the future about making these new roads and new
interconnections and he wondered how they were going to deal with mitigating the impacts of these
parallel road networks through existing neighborhoods.
Ms. Monteith noted that she had attended every single meeting over the years on Places29 and would
like to hear from staff why there is this disconnect. She felt that they were hearing several things tonight
that they had never heard before. She asked if staff has heard that in another place before or why is it for
the first time they were hearing several of these comments.
Mr. Benish asked if it was comments regarding impacts to businesses
11#4W Ms. Monteith replied that it was about the interchange system in terms of the way that the road structure
works and how that will impact businesses.
Mr. Benish replied that they had heard that before from various workshops and charrettes. They certainly
recognize that any development within a corridor is going to have some impacts. The concepts that they
have in place by the consultant were ones that they were going to try to minimize designs for
interchanges that would reduce and lessen the impacts of land required and not do conventional grade
separations with /ramps that precluded access from adjacent properties and utilize an interchange
concept that would potentially bring the adjacent areas to have a relationship to a road system that could
be served by the grade separation. He felt that it had been part of the consultant's planning for the type
of improvements that they had envisioned, which is part of why it was more of a jug handle type of
concept and ring road/parallel road concept and a conventional grade separation concept. But they do
recognize that there is a balance between the necessary improvements. It has been their intent under
the plan concepts that they have to use an approach that minimizes those impacts. He could not speak
to the newness of the comments because he had been hearing them throughout the process.
Mr. Cilimberg said that some speakers have brought it up in prior work sessions. He thought that it is an
issue that is understood. He thought that the Commission had been wrestling with it in some of the prior
work sessions. There is no clean way to deal with the situation that exists and there has not been for at
least as long as he has been here. It was recognized in 1991 when there was the agreement with the
city, county and university that there was a sequencing of projects that was necessary in the corridor and
interchanges were included in that.. It was a little different type from what they are talking about now as
part of this study. The plan had tried to do the best with a situation of transportation problems that have
built over many years. They are behind the curb in dealing with those in terms of the improvements.
Ms. Monteith noted that she understood that, but had not heard the consistency of one particular type of
comment, which is the concern about the grade separated intersections that she had heard tonight at any
other meeting.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 8
FINAL MINUTES
Mr. Cilimberg noted that tonight there was a number of business interests here.
Ms. Joseph pointed out that it had always been an issue for years and years. She felt that they had
gotten themselves into this situation. The county has had a lot of good planners over the years. Years
ago they recognized the fact that they needed some of these parallel roads. One was supposed to go
through Forest Lakes. Once Forest Lakes started filling up with residents they came in to the Board and
said that they did not want the through road. So that road went away. The residents of Woodbrook
came before the Commission asking not to have any interconnectivity. If they look at Woodbrook
Subdivision there are stub outs that were platted to Carrsbrook and Arden Place, but they did not want to
upset an existing neighborhood. Therefore, they did not pursue that aspect. They had Hillsdale Drive
where the Pepsi Plant was located in that area. A lot of good planning has been done over the years for
some of these roads, which is why they are in the current position because they don't have any parallel
roads to 29. It is not because they have been negligent in that, but just something that they have done to
themselves. This particular issue of the grade separated interchanges was something that was worked
out between the city, county, and university years and years ago. But unfortunately it was removed by a
committee.
Ms. Monteith agreed with Ms. Joseph on everything she was saying. Her point is that they have never
had a public hearing where they have heard so many comments of a specific nature at one public
hearing. She was just surprised after all of these years of work that they are hearing so many comments
on one particular thing at one meeting, which might be the last.
Mr. Morris agreed with Ms. Monteith. They have heard comments that were made tonight in previous
workshops, but not to the extent. That is what he was hearing her say.
Ms. Joseph noted that she still supported grade separated intersections at those areas. She thought that
it would do more to help connect both sides of 29. She did not know what else they could do. She did
,Now not think they can remove lanes from 29 to make it so it looks like Downtown Charlottesville. It is what it
is now. They are trying to get people back and forth. What she understood this document was doing
was by making the parallel roads and loop roads that they were trying to make it easier to get to these
businesses. It has never been her intent to destroy businesses on 29. She was trying to help people get
to these businesses by creating more of these connections. It is really important because a lot of people
avoid 29 because of the congestion and so many lanes. If they can get this down to some parallel roads
and some smaller roads connecting to these businesses she hoped that they could make them more
successful. She understands when they put in these interchanges that there will be some businesses that
will be disrupted. But she felt that it was going to be better for the entire community. Right now it is very
difficult for anyone to walk across 29. If they get these interchanges there will be bike lanes and walking
paths so people can get across 29. This is not an attempt to destroy business community this is an
attempt to help them. In her opinion this was not an attempt to destroy the business community, but an
attempt to try to help them be more successful. She was a little frustrated that some of these comments
were not brought out in some of the work sessions.
Mr. Edgerton said that none of what said he heard surprised him because he had been hearing these
concerns for a number of years. One of the issues that the Commission has a responsibility to the
community that they have been struggling with for a number of years in trying to come up with a plan is
that fact that the growth coming to the community in the next 20 years is going to be substantial. The
capacity of 29 is marginal at this time. Unless something is done to deal with the regional traffic and the
local traffic at the same time the community is going to be gridlocked. The business community will be
impacted at that time as well. The businesses will be out of business since the people will not be able to
get to them or avoid them. Right now most of the people that live in this community if at all possible at
certain times of the day will avoid 29 or try to find other routes to avoid the congestion on 29. He was
certain that was going to only get worse in the coming years. He acknowledged that the business
interests are deeply concerned about this proposal of the grade -separated interchanges that Ms. Joseph
mentioned. The grade -separated interchanges were a proposal many years ago before he was even on
the Commission. It was taken out by the transportation committee, which went totally against an
agreement by the city, county and the university. He still believed as a responsibility to the community
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009
FINAL MINUTES
that they have to deal with the growth that is coming to this community. To do nothing which is what is
being proposed by a number of the negative comments this evening out of fear of impacting the existing
businesses is a very self serving approach by a small group of people and does not serve the community.
He was disappointed that a lot of folks in the community did not come to previous work sessions. He was
supportive of what was before the Commission. He hoped that the Commission would have the courage
to go ahead and send it on to the Board of Supervisors.
Ms. Porterfield said that it was not fair to say to the people speaking tonight that they did not come
forward before. She personally discussed with this Commission the letter from the Charlottesville
Regional Chamber of Commerce dated June 12, 2009. She read one portion of it, as follows. "Beyond
construction "do -ability" is the central question about the clear and present danger to the economic vitality
of the region's main commercial corridor such an extensive center corridor alignment construction
schedule would most likely create. Our Chamber has grave concerns about the severe economic
disruption and dislocation the Places29 projects will create. There can be no debate on this point that the
disruption and dislocation will occur. Yes our Chamber understands the relative merits of creative
destruction and how renewed vitality can and often emerges after economic destruction, but what is the
Places 29 estimate of these destructive costs going along the corridor that today supports 20,000 jobs,
800 million dollars in salaries each year and 40 percent of Albemarle's local tax revenue." She felt that
the people who came to speak tonight spoke not only for themselves but they spoke for the average
Albemarle County resident who is paying taxes to support this county through their real estate values,
income taxes, sales taxes and other sundry taxes. She was really concerned back then and today about
what will happen when they try to construct not all of the improvements but just starting with one. She felt
that the construction of one would scare people who have businesses for years who would go away or to
find another place to do business. She felt that the 45 percent, as pointed out tonight, of the annual tax
revenue to this county deserves really big consideration as to whether they are really doing harm. Under
the current economic situation, she felt that they have to sit back and think about not doing any harm.
She suggested that they may have to accept the fact that if they are going to run the traffic through and
use 29 to get from north to south and south to north that it may be more congested and, at the same time,
might be able to save some businesses and their tax base rather than place more burden on the average
Albemarle County tax payer if they lose businesses and taxes.
Mr. Loach said that he did not think that one can make the extension that the people they heard tonight
speak as a representation of the community any more than they can say is that the lack of the average
citizen here is a support of this plan. The person he heard the most tonight was Mr. Van Duran who
talked about land use, density, traffic and planning. In the end that is what this plan boils down to a land
use and transportation plan. The plan has gone before multiple work sessions and has been vetted a
number of times. He did hear the concerns of the business community and would not negate the
alternatives that have been mentioned tonight. He was not sure this is the venue to do it. He felt that the
plan as it stands has been well thought out and vetted and the Commission should move it to the Board
of Supervisors. The Board has the ability to send the plan back to the Commission to make changes to it.
Again, he agreed with the other Commissioners that said that they have a plan that they have done the
work on. The plan answers the questions albeit for a long period of time in an atmosphere where the
funding for those changes is very doubtful.
Mr. Morris asked to move to a different topic the expansion areas. He was the one that asked that it be
placed in the plan to get public comment on it. He heard one gentleman talk in favor of increasing the
development area. He had not received that many emails and phone calls. He had received at least five
emails and many conversations that say do not add to the development. Staff very kindly kept it in so
they could discuss it. It has not drawn many comments except for the ones against except for the one
gentleman tonight.
Ms. Joseph noted that the Commission received a letter from the Forest Lakes Board of Directors that
was against any expansion of the growth area at this time too.
Mr. Franco said that he was the newest one on the Commission and had not been here for the discussion
about the land use plan but only on the implementation. He was not proposing that they do nothing. He
was struggling between the land use plan, which he liked, and the transportation plan. He felt the plan
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 10
FINAL MINUTES
was good in the transportation aspects of things. On implementation of the growth areas he still
wondered and was concerned that they were making potentially false promises to people if they don't
4%W look at how to create these avenues. They heard from one speaker tonight that talked about the funding
of the improvements on 29 in front of the Hollymead Town Center. He still sees that as a tool that is out
there for the Berkmar Extension that personally made sense. He heard other speakers talk about how it
is unrealistic to assume that some of the right-of-ways could be donated in the future. He thought that
expansion of at least the Hollymead and Berkmar area makes a lot of sense to help facilitate that project
taking place. On the NGIC he thought those comments were interesting. They are constantly looking at
ways of trying to integrate the residential components with the work place centers. He thought that was a
valid argument that was presented tonight for areas 1 and 4 around NGIC for expansion of that area.
They are seeing expansion taking place with the location of NGIC and DIA. Having the residential in that
area to support it makes a certain amount of sense.
Ms. Porterfield noted her biggest problem with the plan is that it is based on the parallel road concept and
they have an opportunity to put a parallel road on the west side, but just don't have any money. If there is
any way to encourage the possibility that a developer might be so inclined as to help pay for that, it would
achieve part of what the transportation plan is based on. Mr. Benish's wording really puts any
development in that area in a box regarding things they have to do. It is not a foregone conclusion. It is
very tightly monitored. They will have to come forward with all of the answers to the questions Mr. Benish
has put into this particular section. She felt that was not opening Pandora's Box but just giving the county
an opportunity to maximize what the transportation plan is suggesting.
Ms. Joseph asked staff how many units had been approved in North Pointe. There is a lot of residential
already approved in Hollymead Town Center and North Pointe. The county has a lot of residential that
will be available that has already been approved in a rezoning in that area. She asked if that is true.
Mr. Benish replied that was correct.
Mr. Cilimberg noted that there were around 800 units with Hollymead Town Center having around 1,200
units.
Ms. Joseph noted that it was in the pipeline a number of residential units already rezoned that need to be
platted. When they talk about expansion of the growth area they are talking about the problems on the
existing roads and she could not see the logic behind expanding it at this point in time. There is nothing
to stop anyone from coming in with a Comprehensive Plan Amendment simultaneously with a rezoning
that offers up all kinds of things. But at this point to just hear some words in the air talking about how it is
possible to put a road in different places if the growth area is expanded does not make her feel
comfortable or that she was representing the community properly. Right now it is not something she can
support. With the existing traffic problems she felt that it would be totally irresponsible at this point to add
more land to the growth area.
Ms. Monteith noted in response that on page 3 - 16 there is a summary. It says that there are already
4,500 new housing units approved through rezonings for development in the northern development areas.
Mr. Franco asked does it say how many of those are within walking distance of NGIC and some of the
other centers that are being developed in that area. The Neighborhood Model encourages this kind of
growth immediately adjacent to these work places. He sees this as two different arguments. One is
putting some of the residential units closer to some of the work places. Second is the funding aspect for
the Berkmar Bridge and Berkmar Extended. He heard what Ms. Joseph was saying, but he would say in
lieu of coming up with a Comprehensive Plan Amendment Why not list what conditions and what the
concerns they have today are so that a group of developers could come forward and know what is
expected of them. He thought that is what is outlined in the proposal before them. It was not part of the
plan, but was in the appendixes.
Ms. Joseph replied that she heard what he was saying, but could not go there. They have hear time after
time about the cost of this and they have already have problems that exist. So adding more land in is
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 11
FINAL MINUTES
encouraging more development in this area would not be a responsible thing to do and she could not
support it.
Mr. Franco said that he respects and accepts that, but asked how she justifies that they have a plan that
can't be implemented. They have these expenses for the extension of the road. If they agree that is not
going to happen unless there is funding from the state or county because the development is not going to
do it because they are not being offered to make it happen, then how are they going to have this
important aspect of parallel road connection built.
Ms. Joseph replied that if they put this into the Comp Plan there were no guarantees that it was going to
happen.
Mr. Franco questioned if this is the basis of the whole transportation component. They were saying that
this is the plan they want and this is what they are going to try to make happen. He thought that the
transportation component was more than just a vision of this is what they would like to see. He had been
considering the transportation component as this is our solution for dealing with the current and future
traffic problems. So it is a plan and not just a vision.
Ms. Joseph said that it is a plan and it is adding more intensity out there to add this collection of parcels to
the growth area. She did not think they need any more retail in that area. At this point in time they have a
lot that has already been approved in that area. She disagreed and was just not comfortable at this time
adding more land to the growth area.
Mr. Loach noted that the point made was that they were still playing catch up. Expanding the growth area
would add traffic on 29 and make the matter worse. Until they have a plan for 29 he felt that there should
not be an expansion of the growth area.
Mr. Franco asked isn't this a plan for 29.
Mr. Loach replied that the plan should be approved first and then they could consider it once they know
where they are going. An example is Jarman's Gap Road in Crozet. Until they see some evidence that
they have a realistic transportation plan, be it interchanges or an alternative, he could not support
expansion of the growth.
Ms. Porterfield noted unlike Jarmans Gap Road, if they put in what Mr. Benish wrote this section says
exactly what has to happen before they add to the growth area. It will be nice land, but unless these
things happen nothing is going to get built on it as far as growth area goes. It is very particular in what
one would have to do. At least as Mr. Franco says it, give the developer or a group of developers a real
guide to what is expected of them if they want to start going through the hoops at the county to make
something happen.
Mr. Loach said that he would be happy to entertain that idea when funding is available. He was not totally
against it, but it was the timing.
Ms. Porterfield noted that the only thing that might be funded in the near future would be Berkmar
Extended. She did not see the county coming up with the kinds of money for the grade -separated
interchanges. If they get Berkmar Extended, she felt it would pull some traffic off 29 and people will use it
for businesses.
Mr. Edgerton noted that what initiated some of this conversation was the suggestion by a particular
developer who said that if they allow him to rezone his property to put yet again another large scale retail
facility on it he could figure out a way to pay for that bridge. That was the offer that was made. That is all
very well and good. The problem is that what he is proposing is going to have a regional impact on our
road system. It will increase the traffic on 29. There will be more people coming from outside of the
county to support a large scale retail outfit. They have a process in place. One of the problems he had
with Mrs. Porterfield's and Mr. Franco's suggestion was why reverse the process and why does the
county have the responsibility of initiating a Comprehensive Plan Amendment rather than going through
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 12
FINAL MINUTES
the process already in place. If a developer is willing to come in with more than just a suggestion with a
commitment then they can respond to that.
Mr. Porterfield noted that she knew nothing about the offer of the developer when she suggested
previously that this plan is based on the parallel -road concept and the only place she could see that they
did not have the opportunity to put a parallel road was through the section on the west side that is zoned
rural areas. This is from her reading of the plan. To be real honest, it might be good if they had more
businesses where people would come in from outside the county and their spend money. She lived on
the east side of the county and went to Lowe's in Zion Crossroads because it is easy to access. If the
Wal-Mart had been open, she would have gone there too. That is not good because the county wants
her to spend her money here. She suggested that they bring in people who could spend their money
here even if they don't live here. If this would be a draw, she felt that would be wonderful.
Mr. Cilimberg noted to be fair to the process and some of the history he wanted to remind the
Commission that this particular southern area expansion, which is in somewhat of a different form, came
forward from the landowner early on as the Commission was getting into the Places29 process. The
Commission had suggested that it be considered as an amendment possibility as part of Places29. The
Commission actually received some information from the applicant on what they proposed to do and if
they would consider it early on during Places29. The Commission decided that they would not pursue it
at that time. There has been a process that has taken place where the amendment has been before
them. He did not want the owner to think that it is being ignored because it was before them. The
Commission looked at it and decided that was not something they wanted to pursue. They came back to
it more recently and asked staff to provide something that could be used if it was a decision to add to that
area. That is before the Commission. There has been a rezoning proposal on what the applicant
proposed to do. That is somewhat different than what actually staff has given them more recently. That
is a history of how they got to where they are.
Motion: Ms. Joseph moved and Mr. Edgerton seconded to approve the document as written with the
technical changes and forward it to the Board of Supervisors.
Wendell Wood asked to address some comments made by Mr. Edgerton that were not true. He felt that
they were not serving the community with that thought process.
Mr. Loach declined Mr. Wood's request to speak since the public hearing was over and he could make
his comments at the next hearing. He asked if there was any other discussion.
Mr. Cilimberg asked for some clarification as to what that motion is including. The Board had asked
specifically for the Commission's recommendation regarding the expansion areas. So it would be good to
include in the motion that you are or are not proposing any of the expansion areas before them.
Amended Motion: Ms. Joseph moved to amend the motion that the Planning Commission recommends
no expansion of the growth area at this time.
Mr. Cilimberg noted that the document would otherwise be as has been presented with the
nonsubstantive modifications which need to be made before it goes to the Board.
Ms. Joseph agreed to add Mr. Cilimberg's wording to the motion.
Mr. Cilimberg passed out a document of what those nonsubstantive amendments are so the Commission
knows which changes need to be made to the document before the Board gets it. (See Memo addressed
to Members of Planning Commission from Judy Wiegand dated 10-27-09 regarding List of Changes
Proposed by Staff to the Places29 Master Plan, dated August 18, 2009)
Amended Motion: Ms. Joseph moved and Mr. Edgerton seconded to accept the amendment to the
motion to document otherwise as has been presented with the modifications nonsubstantive that need to
be made before it goes to the Board.
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 13
FINAL MINUTES
Ms. Monteith asked individually what they should do if they pick up little editing things, and Mr. Cilimberg
replied that small edits should be sent to staff as long as it is nonsubstantive and was not questionable.
Mr. Franco said that he remains concerned about the expansions for the reasons already stated. He
remains concerned about the business concerns that were expressed earlier. He was having a hard time
moving this plan forward without understanding and having some type of response from staff or this group
with respect to the fiscal impact and the best guess of what the impact will to our community for
implementing the intersections and the changes for Places29 and the questions that were raised earlier
by the public. He would like to understand the fiscal impacts. They have talked about the number of jobs
and things like that. If there is a way to quantify or understand it he would like to know what those are
before moving this thing forward.
Ms. Joseph questioned whether that can happen. She did not think they could decide what the fiscal
impacts are going to be as far as jobs are concerned on some of these improvements. They don't know
when these improvements are going to occur. The document says it will take several years to occur. She
did not know how that can be done. They have put information in about the costs of the right-of-way. If
they don't agree with those she did not know where else those numbers could come from. Anything they
do is going to have some kind of impact on somebody. She did not agree with that concept.
Mr. Cilimberg said that they recognize that there are those impacts that need to be better quantified and
really thought out in the planning process beyond getting the plan adopted. When dealing with a plan at
this level it is hard to get down to say specifically where a road should go. They can show examples of
interchanges. The plan provides guidance only as to what further planning they need to do. He recalled
that there are two small area plans that are very much about addressing location more specifically of
facilities, impacts and costs including fiscal impact with the properties that are involved. Those two small
area plans were at Rio and 29 generally and the Airport and 29 generally. Those are two interchange
locations. He thought that it was at that point in time where they are going to need to be much more
engaged with the very specifics of a plan and how to provide for the interchange concepts. They may
decide there that there is something else they need to do. This is the start. But to get to that level of
being able to say what the fiscal impact is would be very difficult with a plan at this high view.
Mr. Franco asked if he was saying if they move this plan forward and they get to next stage and they start
to gather that impact information that they could always go backwards and look at another alternative.
Mr. Cilimberg replied certainly that at any point in time any Comprehensive Plan can be amended. All of
these master plans just like the Comprehensive Plan go through a five year review. That is being done
in Crozet at this time. By recognizing some of the things that have happened over the past five years with
the original plan there will be changes to the Crozet plan. When they know more and in a position to
more closely scrutinize how facilities may be provided for and what their impacts may be they are better
able to decide how to deal with those specifics and understand the impacts.
Ms. Monteith said that since this is a fairly large scaled plan as far as the five year review process would
they be focusing more on small area plans that had been developed once this is approved and they
would be moving forward with that. She asked how they plan to focus that effort due to the large scale of
the plan.
Mr. Benish said his hope would be that they would focus on the implementation components. They start
with looking at the vision, the guiding principles and overall recommendations to check in to see if they
are still consistent with what they have experienced and the trends at that point of time. Assuming that
they are on track and still consistent in those areas then they question where they are in the
implementation of those. That is how they are approaching Crozet. They question whether they are still
on track with the vision and overriding goals and objectives and how they are approaching those in terms
of implementation and then how those need to be adjusted. In terms of the small area plans that was one
of the first priorities in terms of the implementation components. In the CIP that was submitted under
review staff requested $100,000 for the next fiscal year to begin that study on Rio Road. They all know
the funding situation and don't know the status of that, but the idea was to starton that one in the first two
years of the plan. As it relates to an update he would hope that they would have some completion of that
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 14
FINAL MINUTES
or result of that and in the update process they would have to make an adjustment. If they find that
something is not going to work they take that under consideration with the five year update. If it is going
to work they move from there. That is how the small area plan might relate to the update.
Mr. Cilimberg noted that they are also looking at the possibility of implementing the small area plan
through a process with the state that has now dictated that all communities of this size had urban
development areas. Actually the small area plans fit very well within the UDA concept. There are some
monies that are going to be available for assistance in doing work of that type that they are going to be
pursuing. He could not say when exactly they would have the small area plans started, but they have
some resources to go to for that. He was not trying to make. that the magic bullet. With the property
owner and general community concerns it is going to be an endeavor to go through the small area plans,
but he thought that was where they would get much more definition. They are blessed and cursed when
they start throwing examples out of how system interchanges and roads might work. On the one hand
they are trying to show what could happen. But on the other hand beyond just the conceptual stage they
really have not looked at it closely to see how it will fit in the end. It is the nature of the master planning
level of work. They would rather at least be giving some view of what it could be than not addressing it at
all.
Mr. Loach said that his view of the plan does is does it meet the basic criteria for the land use
transportation in the Route 29 Corridor. He could answer yes after multiple work sessions and multiple
revisions. Are there questions that still have to be answered? The answer is yes and that is one of the
reasons why he would like to see the plan move up so that the issues that they heard tonight can be
addressed at the Board level. That is one of the reasons he would support the motion. The question of
the expansion areas will go with the plan as well. Our recommendation tonight would be not to expand
the expansion areas, but it is still within the plan as it goes up. He asked if there were any other
comments.
Ms. Porterfield said she philosophically cannot support a plan that is a transportation plan with a premise
for parallel roads when the Commission is essentially not even trying to facilitate the possibility of creating
a parallel road on at least one side of 29. Regardless of the grade -separated interchanges and the havoc
they may cause to the business community as well as those individuals that come and buy in Albemarle
County, it just seems without the parallel road system this isn't a good plan. Additionally, the expansion of
the growth area in another section of Places29 was specifically asked for by the Board of Supervisors in
May of 2006 and the Commission is basically saying no, they are not going to do that if this motion
passes.
Mr. Loach noted that the Board will have a chance to address that issue.
Mr. Morris asked that the question be moved.
Mr. Franco noted that he could accept staffs analysis, but without the addition of the growth areas with a
recommendation of no expansion he cannot support this.
The motion passed by a vote of 4:2. (Ms. Porterfield and Mr. Franco voted nay.) (Mr. Strucko was
absent.)
Mr. Cilimberg noted that no date has been scheduled for the Board of Supervisors hearing, but it most
likely will be scheduled after the first of the year.
Mr. Loach thanked everyone for coming tonight.
In summary, the Planning Commission by a vote of 4:2, recommended approval of the Final Draft
Places29 Master Plan for the document as has been presented with the modifications nonsubstantive that
need to be made before it goes to the Board with the recommendation of no expansion to the growth area
at this time. (Porterfield/Franco voted nay)
Old Business:
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 15
FINAL MINUTES
Mr. Strucko asked if there was any old business.
• December 1, 2009 the Planning Commission meeting will start at 6:00 p.m. in Room 241 for the Joint
City/County meeting.
In a meeting today with the City representatives it was decided that the agenda would focus on the
following items related to Places29:
o what Places29 is recommending;
o to receive the City's current thoughts and input regarding Hillsdale Drive and some of the projects
within the City that are in the Corridor area or parallel to the Corridor; and
o any City input on the Route 29 Corridor Study recommendations on what Route 29 does south of
Hydraulic Road going down to the Bypass; and
o also a request that the University provide some input on how they look at the transportation in the
Corridor in terms of accessing University related facilities whether it be the North Fork Park or the
University itself because a lot of the traffic north/south is actually going to the University. There is
an interest in having some University perspective there.
At the December 1 meeting an additional item might need to be added for the County Planning
Commission to take up. It will be a quick agenda item that will not need a lot of discussion. The
meeting on December 1 will start at 6:00 p.m. and be devoted to the joint discussion.
• November 10, 2009 the Planning Commission meeting starts at 4:30 p.m. on the Farm Wineries.
• November 17, 2009 the Planning Commission meeting starts at 5:00 p.m. on the Entrance Corridor
Administrative Process. The Village of Rivanna public hearing will start at 6:00 p.m.
Mr. Franco thanked staff for their hard work on Places29.
Mr. Cilimberg thanked the Planning Commission for their work on Places29 noting that the transportation
component was a difficult issue.
New Business:
Mr. Strucko asked if there was any new business.
• THERE IS NO MEETING SCHEDULED ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2009.
THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING WILL BE HELD ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 10,
2009.
Adjournment:
With no further items, the meeting adjourned at 7:50 p.m. to the Tuesday, November 10, 2009 meeting at
6:00 p.m. at the County Office Building, Second Floor, Auditorium, 401 McIntire Road, Charlottesville,
Virginia.
V. Wayne Ci jfnberg, Secretary
(Recorded and transcribed by Sharon C. Taylor, Clerk to Planning Commission &Vlanning Boards)
ALBEMARLE COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION - OCTOBER 27, 2009 16
FINAL MINUTES