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HomeMy WebLinkAbout05 03 1994 PC Minutes5-3-94 MAY 3, 1994 The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing on Tuesday, May 3, 1994, Room 7, County Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present were: Ms. Babs Huckle, Chair; Mr. Tom Blue, Vice Chair; Mr. Bill Nitchmann; Mr. Bruce Dotson; Mr. Tom Jenkins; and Ms. Monica Vaughan. Other officials present were: Mr. David Benish, Chief of Community Development. Absent: Commissioner Imhoff. The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. and a quorum was established. The minutes of April 19, 1994 were unanimously approved as amended. ----------------------------------------- WORK SESSION Comprehensive Plan - Mr. Don Martin (Virginia Employment Commission) and Ms. Julia Martin (Center for Public Service) both addressed the Commission and talked about different aspects of local employment. NOTE: Mr. Martin made reference to a statistical report on local employment he had prepared for the Board of Supervisors. Copies of Mr. Martin's report had been made available to the Commission ahead of the meeting. His presentation to the Commission was based on the report and a copy is attached to these minutes as Attachment A. Also attached, as Attachments B and C, are two memos to the Commission from Commissioner Dotson which offer additional information on area jobs, including part-time jobs and their role. Additional information, not contained in Mr. Martin's report, .included the following: --Recent county figures show there have been significant losses in the manufacturing and government sectors of business, but tremendous gains in the service and retail sectors. This means the area.is not maintaining the kinds of jobs that will "sustain us and keep our tax base as it is." ---Mr. Martin reported that Leonard Sandridge had told him informally that there are no plans to increase the workforce over the current level. No new expansion is planned so the current workforce will continue to meet the University's needs for some time. Mr. Dotson later made reference to a report done by the Center for Public Service entitled "UVA Impact on the Community" which explains that another reason why the University is not increasing its workforce is that it is doing more and more "outsourcing." Mr. Dotson felt this could mean that though their own employment is going down, their impact on the community is not necessarily going down, N-9 5--3-94 --"In the metropolitan area here, per capita income,...across the board, in every industry, is less (approximately $800 or $900 less) than the average across the state." (Based on a report prepared in '93, using 192 data.) This is possible because, even though the unemployment rate is lower, people are working for less money than in other areas. (Mr. Dotson referred to a chart on percapita income included in the package prepared by mr. Martin which Mr. Dotson had read as saying that the area was higher than the state in 187, 188, 189, and 190. He asked if Mr. Martin meant that that has now changed. Mr. Martin explained that he was now referring to the "metropolitan area" and what "you have there is Albemarle County." Mr. Dotson expressed the opinion that the large student, part-time work force also effects the per capita income figure and makes it lower.) Commission comments and questions included the following: Mr. Nitchmann asked if Mr. Martin felt that the retail -service jobs still serve as a "safety -net" for persons who have lost jobs in the other, higher paying businesses, or does the net "have a lot of holes" because the area can only support a limited number of large retailers. Mr. Martin felt that the safety --net, as described by Mr. Nitchmann, has worked so far, as reflected in the fact that "we are the 2nd lowest metropolitan area as far as unemployment rate." Mr. Nitchmann noted that people who must take lower -paying jobs (after having held higher paying jobs) are faced with trying to support a family and meet financial obligations which were incurred during the time the person held the higher paying job (e.g. mortgages, car loans, etc.). Mr. Nitchmann found the fact that the University has no plans to increase it's workforce very disturbing. He felt many people are not aware of the significant impact this will have on the community. Mr. Dotson asked it Mr. Martin's experience has been that it is more likely that the manufacturing business is "more likely to be more volatile and more responsive to recessions and booms in the national economy" than retailing. Mr. Martin stated that he was not an economist, but he was of the opinion that both types of businesses, nationally, are "relatively volatile." Locally, he felt that the "insulation that we once had is fast leaving.'" Mr. Dotson commented on some of the weekly "average wage" figures contained in Mr. Martin's information. He pointed out how the figures can be viewed differently when taking into consideration part-time wages. He concluded that "maybe our images aren't reflected in the data." One of the examples he used, taken from the government sector, showed that a person working full-time would be making almost $15/hr., but working 22 hrs./wk. that person would be making $27/hr. Mr. Martin explained that the 5-3-94 3 "average" figures take into account all employees, from managers on down. Mr. Martin also explained t at "wages" and "salaries" are considered to be the same thing. (Mr. Dotson was referring to Mr. Martin's chart labelled "average weekly wage"and took the title literally as being only hourly -wages.) Mr. Blue called attention to a statement in Mr. Dotson's memo which appeared to have come from VEC, but which seemed to be "'exactly opposite" Mr. Martin's statements, i.e. that one of the reasons people move to this area is because it "continues to generate high quality jobs...."' Mr Martin responded with comments about the University's experience with lack of quality jobs available for spouses of perspective professors, etc., and also with the comment that people often move here "to find a job." Mr. Martin explained that VEC gets many requests for job information from people wanting to move here "because they like the area" not because there are jobs available here. Mr. Blue responded: "'That's my point." Mr. Martin confirmed that the statistics do not show that this area continues to generate high paying quality jobs at any substantial rate. It was Mr. Nitchmann's perception, based on the figures in Mr. Martin's report, that "as long as we continue to keep our head in the sand —at some point in time we are going to wake up and find out that the service and retail jobs are going to continue to grow as a percentage of the total employment opportunities within this county. At the same time, they are affording wage salaries that are anywhere fr•om.56% to 88% of the average wage of the area, which...if that trend continues, we're going to have some major problems here regarding supporting the County from the tax basis --social services, and everything else --because it is just going to generate less money. There are going to be less jobs and people are going to start Leaving this area to find other jobs.'" Mr. Martin responded: "From my position, I agree with you. Mr. Nitchmann asked if any studies had been done on persons who take jobs below their experience and educational level because they cannot find anything else. Mr. Martin was not aware of any such studies. He explained that the difficulty lies in defining the term "underemployment." ---------------------------------- Ms. Julia Martin (Center for Public Service), then offered extensive comments on the topic of how to define "underemployment" and on occupations in general. Commission comments and questions included the following: On the topic of underemployment., Mr. Blue commented: "There seems to be a group of people in an area that are perfectly happy with that area ---they have a good job --they don't want to see any 51�0 5-3-54 4 more traffic or any more burden on the schools --any more tax burden --they may be the ones that define the underemployed in quite a different manner than somebody else. They are satisfied with the way it is and they are not particularly anxious for a change. I have found, quite seriously, that that seems to be a problem in this area." Ms. Martin responded: "I wouldn't doubt i t . " Mr. Nitchmann related his experiences in hiring experienced, educated persons who are forced to take lower paying jobs in an attempt to support their families. These experiences have confirmed his belief that the area needs more quality jobs in terms of not only salaries, but also in terms of benefits and upward' inoUility '"through the job chain." Mr. Nitchmann felt that ultimately the University's "standings will start to slip down" because quality people will not come here if there is no acceptable employment for spouses. Mr. Dotson did not think this was unique to this community. Mr. Blue disagreed because he felt that there are few communities of this size with a University of national repute. Ms. Huckle pointed out that there are now more two -career families than there once were. Mr. Jenkins doubted that this could be "fixed" with a Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Nitchmann disagreed saying: "We can if we put something more in the Employment Section of the Comprehensive Plan other than 58 words regarding what this community's obligations are to try to solve these types of problems." He felt it had to be addressed in the Camp Plan because "if it's not in there, everybody says 'well, it's not part of the Comprehensive Plan so we don't have to do anything about it."' Regarding the information presented by both the speakers, Mr. Blue expressed the opinion that in past years the Camp Plan has discouraged growth "because we have a nice physical environment and growth means more traffic congestion, more taxes for schools, etc., and there are many people who represent organizations and attend our meetings who will say that businesses and industry do not help a community, they cost it. ... I think that having information like this may help change that perception or may help us get away from the perception and know the facts of whether it really is true. I have maintained for a long time that growth is not going to, necessarily, lower taxes but growth is something a viable community has to have to be a reasonable place to live and to try to put a cap on it isn't going to work. You either grow at a moderate rate, or something you can sustain, or you go backwards. There is just no sitting still." Mr. Dotson commented: "This has hardly been a no -growth community. It has been a high growth community and the forecast has been for it to continue to be a high growth community." Mr. 151 5-3-94 5 Blue agreed but noted: "But it's not because of government action, it has been in spite of...:" Ms. Huckle asked if there were any figures on the number of persons who want to obtain better jobs but are unable to do so because of lack of training or education. Ms. Martin was not aware of any such figures though she stated that "inferences" could be drawn from available data. Ms. Huckle wondered if there were any way to identify these persons so that an attempt could be made to motivate theist to take advantage of the available training opportunities. Mr. Nitchmann questioned where these people would find jobs after training has been completed. Ms. Martin explained that it is difficult to make the connection between the persons who want the training, the persons offering the training, and the employers who need the trained persons. Mr. Nitchmann expressed the feeling that the issues discussed at this meeting were very important to the long-term health of this community. He felt it was unfortunate that the press had.not been present. Mr. Dotson felt the Commission was "groping to define a problem and understand its nature and ... many of the concerns are that it's easy to jump to too quick a solution and take a scatter-gun approach when we need a rifle. I think we are trying out different guns and I, for one, am very concerned about the shotgun. I would like to come to understand what, if"any, problem there is." He felt it would be helpful to look back at and analyze the report done by the Planning District Commission. Mr. Blue expressed concern about the "trend" and he stated he was - disturbed by the information presented by both Mr. Martin and Ms. Martin. He felt their comments show that "we do need to pay more attention to, the jobs and employment" in the Comprehensive Plan because "the trend is getting to be in the wrong direction in terms of what these jobs are going to be." He felt there should be more diversification. He did not think manufacturing is the "panacea for everything" nor was he "advocating smokestack industry." But he expressed concern about "giving the perception that we don't want manufacturing in this community which I thank we're going to need." Ms. Huckle felt part of the problem presently is that some of the industries in the area do not have the amount of business they once had. She added that getting an industry was no guarantee that it would stay in the area and prosper indefinitely. She expressed concern about a hasty approach which might create more problems than it solves. She: expressed the belief that commercial and retail should do a lot more in the training area. /S A 5-3-94 6 In conclusion, Mr. Nitchmann asked Mr. Martin and Ms. Martin: "Do the numbers indicate that we have a problem'?" He indicated that his expereience makes him believe that there is a problem. Ms. Martin responded:- "Go with your gut (feeling). Just check the numbers to be sure your gut isn't too- far off." Mr. Martin responded; "We can give you all the numbers, but how you use. them in the context of Albemarle County.is up to you.,, Mr. Martin used the term "job conservation." He explained: I'm not saying that Albemarle County should be more industrial, I'm saying they should maintain what they have." Mr. Nitchmann explained how the closing of one business can adversely effect many other businesses in the community in terms of earnings and employees. Finally, Mr. Martin pointed out those business sectors which are not keeping pace with population growth -- manufacturing, construction, transportation, communication, public utilities, finance. Ms. Huckle asked if staff could provide information on which segments of the population are growing. Public Comment Ms. Lisa Glass - She asked if there were any trends in manufacturing towards more overtime rather than hiring more employees. (Mr. Nitchmann answered her question with a "yes.") She also expressed support for a Comp Plan strategy which would tie education to employment. Mr. Tom Olivier -- He called attention to the Sustainable Development Concept which the TJPDG recently started. It will be working on the idea of a "regional society that can sustain itself.' He also stated that the TJ SPARE program will provide a lot of data on what resources will allow the area to sustain itself. (The funding for TJ SPARE is not yet definite. He suggested that it might be beneficial to identify "pockets" or those areas which have a high percentage of unemployed citizens. Mr. Don Wagner - He -stated that the County cannot ensure that all businesses will be successful, but it can say, in the Comp Plan, that "we would like to have certain kinds of businesses in Albemarle County." Regading the earlier discussion about training, he pointed out that a more definitive statement in the Plan would help those people involved in training (e.g. schools) know what type of training is needed. He agreed that the Camp Plan could not solve the problems, but he asked that it "not perpetuate them." ----------------------------------------- 1-53 5-3- 94 MISCELLANEOUS 7' Mr. Nitchmann agaim askeri, staff to check with the Sch4o.l, System. to see why they have not commented on the Commigsi.o,n's recommendation that more "life skills" be taught in the schools. Mr. Benish stated that question is already being looked into. He also noted that School System representatives are scheduled to meet with the Commission in late June. Mr. Nitchmann expressed a lack of understanding as to the continued delay of a response to this question. He asked that start send a written request (with a copy to Mr. Nitchmann), asking for a response within 30' days, and if no response is received, then the matter should be taken to a higher level.. ---------------- Mr. Beniah briefly explained I -ow public community meetings (to be held in ,September) will' be conducted, including anticipated topics, procedure, etc. Mr. Nitchmann felt means of notification is a key factor in ensuring participation. Ms. Huckle expressed the hope that a meeting will be scheduled for North Garden, at Red Hill School, There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 9:10 p.m. W. ayne /Ci.ii.mberg, S�fretary Z-