HomeMy WebLinkAbout05 03 1994 PC Minutes5-3-94
MAY 3, 1994
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing on
Tuesday, May 3, 1994, Room 7, County Office Building,
Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present were: Ms. Babs
Huckle, Chair; Mr. Tom Blue, Vice Chair; Mr. Bill Nitchmann; Mr.
Bruce Dotson; Mr. Tom Jenkins; and Ms. Monica Vaughan. Other
officials present were: Mr. David Benish, Chief of Community
Development. Absent: Commissioner Imhoff.
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. and a quorum was
established. The minutes of April 19, 1994 were unanimously
approved as amended.
-----------------------------------------
WORK SESSION
Comprehensive Plan - Mr. Don Martin (Virginia Employment
Commission) and Ms. Julia Martin (Center for Public Service) both
addressed the Commission and talked about different aspects of
local employment.
NOTE: Mr. Martin made reference to a statistical report on local
employment he had prepared for the Board of Supervisors. Copies
of Mr. Martin's report had been made available to the Commission
ahead of the meeting. His presentation to the Commission was
based on the report and a copy is attached to these minutes as
Attachment A. Also attached, as Attachments B and C, are two
memos to the Commission from Commissioner Dotson which offer
additional information on area jobs, including part-time jobs and
their role.
Additional information, not contained in Mr. Martin's report,
.included the following:
--Recent county figures show there have been significant
losses in the manufacturing and government sectors of business,
but tremendous gains in the service and retail sectors. This
means the area.is not maintaining the kinds of jobs that will
"sustain us and keep our tax base as it is."
---Mr. Martin reported that Leonard Sandridge had told him
informally that there are no plans to increase the workforce over
the current level. No new expansion is planned so the current
workforce will continue to meet the University's needs for some
time. Mr. Dotson later made reference to a report done by the
Center for Public Service entitled "UVA Impact on the Community"
which explains that another reason why the University is not
increasing its workforce is that it is doing more and more
"outsourcing." Mr. Dotson felt this could mean that though their
own employment is going down, their impact on the community is
not necessarily going down,
N-9
5--3-94
--"In the metropolitan area here, per capita
income,...across the board, in every industry, is less
(approximately $800 or $900 less) than the average across the
state." (Based on a report prepared in '93, using 192 data.)
This is possible because, even though the unemployment rate is
lower, people are working for less money than in other areas.
(Mr. Dotson referred to a chart on percapita income included in
the package prepared by mr. Martin which Mr. Dotson had read as
saying that the area was higher than the state in 187, 188, 189,
and 190. He asked if Mr. Martin meant that that has now changed.
Mr. Martin explained that he was now referring to the
"metropolitan area" and what "you have there is Albemarle
County." Mr. Dotson expressed the opinion that the large
student, part-time work force also effects the per capita income
figure and makes it lower.)
Commission comments and questions included the following:
Mr. Nitchmann asked if Mr. Martin felt that the retail -service
jobs still serve as a "safety -net" for persons who have lost jobs
in the other, higher paying businesses, or does the net "have a
lot of holes" because the area can only support a limited number
of large retailers. Mr. Martin felt that the safety --net, as
described by Mr. Nitchmann, has worked so far, as reflected in
the fact that "we are the 2nd lowest metropolitan area as far as
unemployment rate." Mr. Nitchmann noted that people who must
take lower -paying jobs (after having held higher paying jobs) are
faced with trying to support a family and meet financial
obligations which were incurred during the time the person held
the higher paying job (e.g. mortgages, car loans, etc.).
Mr. Nitchmann found the fact that the University has no plans to
increase it's workforce very disturbing. He felt many people are
not aware of the significant impact this will have on the
community.
Mr. Dotson asked it Mr. Martin's experience has been that it is
more likely that the manufacturing business is "more likely to be
more volatile and more responsive to recessions and booms in the
national economy" than retailing. Mr. Martin stated that he was
not an economist, but he was of the opinion that both types of
businesses, nationally, are "relatively volatile." Locally, he
felt that the "insulation that we once had is fast leaving.'"
Mr. Dotson commented on some of the weekly "average wage" figures
contained in Mr. Martin's information. He pointed out how the
figures can be viewed differently when taking into consideration
part-time wages. He concluded that "maybe our images aren't
reflected in the data." One of the examples he used, taken from
the government sector, showed that a person working full-time
would be making almost $15/hr., but working 22 hrs./wk. that
person would be making $27/hr. Mr. Martin explained that the
5-3-94 3
"average" figures take into account all employees, from managers
on down. Mr. Martin also explained t at "wages" and "salaries"
are considered to be the same thing. (Mr. Dotson was referring
to Mr. Martin's chart labelled "average weekly wage"and took the
title literally as being only hourly -wages.)
Mr. Blue called attention to a statement in Mr. Dotson's memo
which appeared to have come from VEC, but which seemed to be
"'exactly opposite" Mr. Martin's statements, i.e. that one of the
reasons people move to this area is because it "continues to
generate high quality jobs...."' Mr Martin responded with
comments about the University's experience with lack of quality
jobs available for spouses of perspective professors, etc., and
also with the comment that people often move here "to find a
job." Mr. Martin explained that VEC gets many requests for job
information from people wanting to move here "because they like
the area" not because there are jobs available here. Mr. Blue
responded: "'That's my point." Mr. Martin confirmed that the
statistics do not show that this area continues to generate high
paying quality jobs at any substantial rate.
It was Mr. Nitchmann's perception, based on the figures in Mr.
Martin's report, that "as long as we continue to keep our head in
the sand —at some point in time we are going to wake up and find
out that the service and retail jobs are going to continue to
grow as a percentage of the total employment opportunities within
this county. At the same time, they are affording wage salaries
that are anywhere fr•om.56% to 88% of the average wage of the
area, which...if that trend continues, we're going to have some
major problems here regarding supporting the County from the tax
basis --social services, and everything else --because it is just
going to generate less money. There are going to be less jobs
and people are going to start Leaving this area to find other
jobs.'" Mr. Martin responded: "From my position, I agree with
you.
Mr. Nitchmann asked if any studies had been done on persons who
take jobs below their experience and educational level because
they cannot find anything else. Mr. Martin was not aware of any
such studies. He explained that the difficulty lies in defining
the term "underemployment."
----------------------------------
Ms. Julia Martin (Center for Public Service), then offered
extensive comments on the topic of how to define
"underemployment" and on occupations in general.
Commission comments and questions included the following:
On the topic of underemployment., Mr. Blue commented: "There
seems to be a group of people in an area that are perfectly happy
with that area ---they have a good job --they don't want to see any
51�0
5-3-54 4
more traffic or any more burden on the schools --any more tax
burden --they may be the ones that define the underemployed in
quite a different manner than somebody else. They are satisfied
with the way it is and they are not particularly anxious for a
change. I have found, quite seriously, that that seems to be a
problem in this area." Ms. Martin responded: "I wouldn't doubt
i t . "
Mr. Nitchmann related his experiences in hiring experienced,
educated persons who are forced to take lower paying jobs in an
attempt to support their families. These experiences have
confirmed his belief that the area needs more quality jobs in
terms of not only salaries, but also in terms of benefits and
upward' inoUility '"through the job chain."
Mr. Nitchmann felt that ultimately the University's "standings
will start to slip down" because quality people will not come
here if there is no acceptable employment for spouses. Mr.
Dotson did not think this was unique to this community. Mr. Blue
disagreed because he felt that there are few communities of this
size with a University of national repute. Ms. Huckle pointed
out that there are now more two -career families than there once
were. Mr. Jenkins doubted that this could be "fixed" with a
Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Nitchmann disagreed saying: "We can if
we put something more in the Employment Section of the
Comprehensive Plan other than 58 words regarding what this
community's obligations are to try to solve these types of
problems." He felt it had to be addressed in the Camp Plan
because "if it's not in there, everybody says 'well, it's not
part of the Comprehensive Plan so we don't have to do anything
about it."'
Regarding the information presented by both the speakers, Mr.
Blue expressed the opinion that in past years the Camp Plan has
discouraged growth "because we have a nice physical environment
and growth means more traffic congestion, more taxes for schools,
etc., and there are many people who represent organizations and
attend our meetings who will say that businesses and industry do
not help a community, they cost it. ... I think that having
information like this may help change that perception or may help
us get away from the perception and know the facts of whether it
really is true. I have maintained for a long time that growth is
not going to, necessarily, lower taxes but growth is something a
viable community has to have to be a reasonable place to live and
to try to put a cap on it isn't going to work. You either grow
at a moderate rate, or something you can sustain, or you go
backwards. There is just no sitting still."
Mr. Dotson commented: "This has hardly been a no -growth
community. It has been a high growth community and the forecast
has been for it to continue to be a high growth community." Mr.
151
5-3-94
5
Blue agreed but noted: "But it's not because of government
action, it has been in spite of...:"
Ms. Huckle asked if there were any figures on the number of
persons who want to obtain better jobs but are unable to do so
because of lack of training or education. Ms. Martin was not
aware of any such figures though she stated that "inferences"
could be drawn from available data. Ms. Huckle wondered if there
were any way to identify these persons so that an attempt could
be made to motivate theist to take advantage of the available
training opportunities. Mr. Nitchmann questioned where these
people would find jobs after training has been completed. Ms.
Martin explained that it is difficult to make the connection
between the persons who want the training, the persons offering
the training, and the employers who need the trained persons.
Mr. Nitchmann expressed the feeling that the issues discussed at
this meeting were very important to the long-term health of this
community. He felt it was unfortunate that the press had.not
been present.
Mr. Dotson felt the Commission was "groping to define a problem
and understand its nature and ... many of the concerns are that
it's easy to jump to too quick a solution and take a scatter-gun
approach when we need a rifle. I think we are trying out
different guns and I, for one, am very concerned about the
shotgun. I would like to come to understand what, if"any,
problem there is." He felt it would be helpful to look back at
and analyze the report done by the Planning District Commission.
Mr. Blue expressed concern about the "trend" and he stated he was -
disturbed by the information presented by both Mr. Martin and Ms.
Martin. He felt their comments show that "we do need to pay more
attention to, the jobs and employment" in the Comprehensive Plan
because "the trend is getting to be in the wrong direction in
terms of what these jobs are going to be." He felt there should
be more diversification. He did not think manufacturing is the
"panacea for everything" nor was he "advocating smokestack
industry." But he expressed concern about "giving the perception
that we don't want manufacturing in this community which I thank
we're going to need."
Ms. Huckle felt part of the problem presently is that some of the
industries in the area do not have the amount of business they
once had. She added that getting an industry was no guarantee
that it would stay in the area and prosper indefinitely. She
expressed concern about a hasty approach which might create more
problems than it solves. She: expressed the belief that
commercial and retail should do a lot more in the training area.
/S A
5-3-94 6
In conclusion, Mr. Nitchmann asked Mr. Martin and Ms. Martin:
"Do the numbers indicate that we have a problem'?" He indicated
that his expereience makes him believe that there is a problem.
Ms. Martin responded:- "Go with your gut (feeling). Just check
the numbers to be sure your gut isn't too- far off." Mr. Martin
responded; "We can give you all the numbers, but how you use.
them in the context of Albemarle County.is up to you.,, Mr.
Martin used the term "job conservation." He explained: I'm
not saying that Albemarle County should be more industrial, I'm
saying they should maintain what they have." Mr. Nitchmann
explained how the closing of one business can adversely effect
many other businesses in the community in terms of earnings and
employees.
Finally, Mr. Martin pointed out those business sectors which are
not keeping pace with population growth -- manufacturing,
construction, transportation, communication, public utilities,
finance.
Ms. Huckle asked if staff could provide information on which
segments of the population are growing.
Public Comment
Ms. Lisa Glass - She asked if there were any trends in
manufacturing towards more overtime rather than hiring more
employees. (Mr. Nitchmann answered her question with a "yes.")
She also expressed support for a Comp Plan strategy which would
tie education to employment.
Mr. Tom Olivier -- He called attention to the Sustainable
Development Concept which the TJPDG recently started. It will be
working on the idea of a "regional society that can sustain
itself.' He also stated that the TJ SPARE program will provide a
lot of data on what resources will allow the area to sustain
itself. (The funding for TJ SPARE is not yet definite. He
suggested that it might be beneficial to identify "pockets" or
those areas which have a high percentage of unemployed citizens.
Mr. Don Wagner - He -stated that the County cannot ensure that all
businesses will be successful, but it can say, in the Comp Plan,
that "we would like to have certain kinds of businesses in
Albemarle County." Regading the earlier discussion about
training, he pointed out that a more definitive statement in the
Plan would help those people involved in training (e.g. schools)
know what type of training is needed. He agreed that the Camp
Plan could not solve the problems, but he asked that it "not
perpetuate them."
-----------------------------------------
1-53
5-3- 94
MISCELLANEOUS
7'
Mr. Nitchmann agaim askeri, staff to check with the Sch4o.l, System.
to see why they have not commented on the Commigsi.o,n's
recommendation that more "life skills" be taught in the schools.
Mr. Benish stated that question is already being looked into. He
also noted that School System representatives are scheduled to
meet with the Commission in late June. Mr. Nitchmann expressed a
lack of understanding as to the continued delay of a response to
this question. He asked that start send a written request (with
a copy to Mr. Nitchmann), asking for a response within 30' days,
and if no response is received, then the matter should be taken
to a higher level..
----------------
Mr. Beniah briefly explained I -ow public community meetings
(to be held in ,September) will' be conducted, including
anticipated topics, procedure, etc. Mr. Nitchmann felt means of
notification is a key factor in ensuring participation. Ms.
Huckle expressed the hope that a meeting will be scheduled for
North Garden, at Red Hill School,
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 9:10
p.m.
W.
ayne /Ci.ii.mberg, S�fretary
Z-