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HomeMy WebLinkAbout02 23 1993 PC MinutesFEBRUARY 23, 1993 The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing on Tuesday, February 23, 1993, Auditorium, County Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Mr. Thomas Blue; Ms. Ellen Andersen; Mr. Walter Johnson;, Vice Chairman; Mr. William Nitchman; and Ms. Babs Huckle. Other officials present were: Mr. V. Mayne Cilimberg, Director of Planning and Community Development; Mr. Bill Fritz, Senior Planner; Mr. Rich Tarbell, Senior Planner; and Mr. Jim Bowling, Deputy County Attorney. The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and established that a quorum was present. The minutes of February 2, 1993 were approved as amended by Mr. Blue. ZMA-92-12 and SP-92-BU Worrell Land and Cattle Somoanv - Proposal to establish an application plan for 241 acres zoned PD-MC, Planned Development -Mixed Commercial and CO, Commercial Office and to obtain a special use permit to allow residential use [Section 23.2.2(9)] and supporting commercial uses [Section 23.2.2(11)] in the portion of the property zoned CO, Commercial Office. Included in this proposal is a request to rezone 1.7 acres from CO, Commercial Office to PD-MC, Planned Development -Mixed Commercial. The application plan generally proposes 977,550 square feet of office development, 296 residential units, and 85 acres of open space to be served by private roads Property, described as Tax Map 78, Parcels 20B, 20C, 20K, 20M, 31, 32, 71 and 71A is bounded by Richmond Road (Route 250E) to the north, I-64 to the south and east to State Farm Blvd to the west. This site is recommended for Office/Regional Service in the Rivanna Magisterial District. Mr. Tarbell presented the staff report. Staff recommended approval of both the rezoning (with agreements) and the special permit (with no conditions). Mr. Johnson questioned the use of the word "demand" in agreement No. 5 in relation to road improvements, i.e. "...These improvements shall be constructed upon 'demand' of the Virginia Department of Transportation in accordance with their letter dated February 8, 1993...... He noted that the letter from VDOT "transfers that schedule to the applicant based on vehicle count." Mr. Tarbell explained that he had used language which had been used in similar situations in the past. Mr. Johnson felt they (VDOT) were shifting the responsibility to the applicant. Mr. Tarbell responded: "I think there could still he some disagreement in the future .1517 2-23-93 2 as to how much (traffic) they are generating, and I still think it is VDOT's decision to say 'we insist that it's necessary now."' [Mr. Grimm felt the language was clear as stated.] Mr. Johnson, referring to agreement No. 8, asked if the Sign Ordinance applies to private streets. Mr. Tarbell responded that the report had been based on the Zoning Ordinance and the Planning Staff is not actually involved in sign questions. He could not answer Mr. Johnson's question definitively. Mr. Johnson felt this matter should be clarified, i.e. do the Sign Ordinance regulations apply to private streets or not? Mr. Tarbell explained it was his intent to address site plan issues, and the words "except signs" is taken from the Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Johnson felt that agreement No. 2 [The supporting commercial uses shall be in accordance with those uses permitted by -right in the C-1 zone as modified by Section 9.4.3 of the Zoning Ordinance.] was "superfluous." Mr. Blue asked why VDOT will not accept roads designed to mountainous terrain standards. Mr. Tarbell confirmed that VDOT would not accept mountainous terrain standards anywhere in this county, regardless of the scale of the development. Mr. Blue commented: "We're talking about a illion square feet of office space in the ultimate development, without the residences. That's a whole lot of traffic. If VDOT has some real justification for saying that the mountainous terrain standards are not sufficient to support that kind of traffic count in this development, I think we ought to know about it. On the other hand, if that's just a straight across-the-board statement for every development, then I suppose there's nothing we can do about it." Mr. Tarbell felt it was an across-the-board statement and they will only accept rolling terrain standards in this area. Mr. Blue asked if staff was aware of any reason mountainous standards would not work. Mr. Tarbell responded that neither the planning staff nor the engineering staff "have a problem" with mountainous standards. Mr. Blue questioned staff's position that the requirement that "such private road shall not be designed to serve through traffic nor to intersect the state highway system in more than one location" does not apply to the proposed layout. (It was staff's interpretation that this requirement would not apply because "no private road directly connects two state roads and, therefore, would not effectively serve through traffic." It was Mr. Blue's interpretation that "it does connect two state roads." Mr. Tarbell pointed out on the plan that there was no "direct �� Q 2-23-93 connection," because several between State Farm Blvd. and was "stretching things." 3 turns would have to be made Rt. 250. Mr. Blue felt this Ms. Huckle expressed support for private roads and mountainous standards. However, she expressed concern about lack of County control over parking along the roads during special events. Mr. Tarbell explained that parking would be available in surrounding parking lots because special events would usually be held after office hours and on weekends. He did not feel there would be much need for street parking. He agreed that the County would have no control over street parking on private roads. Regarding the timing for the installation of traffic lights on Rt. 250, Mr. Nitchmann asked how this would be determined and who would be responsible. Mr. Tarbell explained the responsibility would belong to the owner. He stated that the letter from VDDT (February 8) addresses the question of timing. Mr. Nitchmann expressed concern about four lanes being completed before a light is installed. He wondered if the timing could be pinned down more specifically. Mr Tarbell explained that the letter from VDDT "sets the parameters." He also noted that VDDT does not want a traffic signal earlier than necessary. The Chairman invited applicant comment. The applicant was represented by Mr. Andrew Dracapoli. He explained the history and planning process of the proposal. Specific comments and answers to Commission questions included the following: --The plan is in complete conformance with the zoning and the Comprehensive Plan. --The project will provide commercial and business expansion area for local and out -town -businesses within the urban area. --Over 1/3 of the property is dedicated to open space, on a permanent basis." --Regarding the issues of signs, he stated: "As far as I'm concerned, the Sign Ordinance applies to private roads the same as it does to the public roads." --Regarding mountainous terrain standards, it is VDOT's "blinkered" view that mountainous standards belong in Southwest Virginia, not in Albemarle County. He noted that the local VDDT office had supported an earlier request for mountainous standards, but had been "completely reversed" by the Culpeper office. --An extensive traffic count study was submitted to VDDT. VDDT has not commented specifically on the use of two lane roads in the property. The applicant's traffic engineers feel that two-lane roads are adequate "at full buildout for what we have in mind.' Two lane roads require half the amount of cuts and fills. 2-23--93 4 --Referring to Mr. Nitchmann's concern about a traffic count of 2,500 cars/hour, he corrected that the count is 2,500 cars/ (It is at that point, when the count reaches 2,500 cars/day, that a light will be installed.) The applicant has requested the option of being able to install a light at an earlier time. ---Regarding the issue of the "through" traffic, he explained that because of the volume of internal traffic, the applicant wants to discourage through traffic, thus one of the reasons for the roads being "fairly circuitous." --Regarding parking on roads, he stated that while the park may be in use before surrounding construction is completed, it is anticipated that there will be sufficient parking around the existing barns. Later, it is felt that the parking areas for the surrounding buildings will provide sufficient parking and it may be decided later that the park is inappropriate for some events. --In response to Mr. Blue's question, he anticipated a residential population of 600--700 persons (300 townhomes), 1,000,000 square feet of office space (5,000 parking spaces), and a 15-20 year buildout. --In response to Mr. Johnson's question about agreement No. 5 and the term "on demand," he confirmed that the applicant was comfortable with the wording. He explained that the option to install the traffic light earlier than required by VDOT had been at the request of the applicant. There being no public comment, the matter was placed before the Commission. Mr. Blue noted that this was a well thought out plan. He explained that the Service Authority had satisfied his concerns about possible future expense to County citizens in the event utility lines would have to be enlarged to serve this development. He was of the understanding that no future taxpayer expense would be involved. He expressed some reservations about private roads, but stated he wanted to believe VDOT knows its business_ MOTION: Mr. Blue moved, seconded by Ms. Huckle, that ZMA 92-12 for Worrell Land and Cattle Company be recommended to the Board of Supervisors for approval subject to those agreements set forth in the Staff Report dated February 23, 1993. The motion passed unanimously. MOTION: Ms. Huckle moved, seconded by Mr. Johnson, that SP- 92--66 for Worrell Land and Cattle Company be recommended to the Board of Supervisors for approval. (No conditions.) The motion passed unanimously. 07G2 2-23-93 5 ZMA-92-13 & SP-93-02 George & William Clark - Proposal to rezone approximately 102.89 acres from Rural Areas to VR, Village Residential and to opbtain a special use permit for a stream crossing in the floodplain of the South Branch of the Hardware River [30.3). Property, described as Tax Map 87, Parcels 57C and 66-76 inclusive and Tax Map 99, Parcels 109-116 inclusive, is located in the southeastern corner of the intersection of Red Hill School Road and North Garden Lane (rts. 760 and 712) in the Samuel Miller Magisterial District. This site is located in a designated growth area (Village of North Garden) and is recommended for Village use (1 dwelling unit per acre). Deferred from February 9 Commission Meeting. Mr. Fritz presented the staff report. He distributed to the Commission memoranda from the Water Resources Manager and from Jack Kelsy (Engineering Department), both of which specifically addressed proffers provided by the applicant since the previous public hearing. He also distributed a letter of opposition which had been received 2-18-93 (he did not identify the letter further.) He called attention to a Resolution of Intent from the Albemarle County Service Authority addressing the issue of central groundwater systems "and discourages their use and where they are permitted it encourages those systems to be designed and constructed in accordance with the Albemarle County Service Authority's specifications." Referring to this Resolution, Mr. Blue asked if the Board had defined "sizeable population." Staff could provide no additional information. Mr. Cilimberg noted that the Resolution had been passed by the Service Authority (and endorsed by the Board). Mr. Fritz briefly reviewed the proposal. He explained events which had taken place since the previous public hearing, i.e. meetings between staff (Planning, Engineering and the Water Resource Manager) and the applicant and proffers offered. He explained that a proffer l'hs been offered which addresses water testing but "it contains no reference to what the testing will indicate nor who will approve or disapprove any findings before development occurs." Regarding water availability he stated: "Staff- opinion continues to be that verification of adequate water supply should occur prior to any rezoning and, in fact, the provision of adequate utilities is a stated purpose of zoning." Regarding access he explained that the proffer does not limit access to a single point nor does it limit all lots to internal access. He stated that "as of today" no written comments had been received from the VDOT. Regarding the stream crossing, the proffer offered identifies an approximate location but provides no engineering data, therefore staff has no additional comment. He concluded that the other unfavorable factors identified '4 $ 2-23-93 6 by the staff report --no plan of development, non -tolerable status of roads, impact to sensitive environmental areas --were not further addressed by the applicant and, therefore, "staff's recommendation regarding this rezoning and special permit remains unchanged and recommendation is for denial." Ms. Andersen made the following statement regarding a lavender -colored document which had been "sent out under a mailing address": "To correct any mistaken conclusions, I did not send this out. It was sent out by someone Ilse. My name appears at the bottom. If you read the mailer carefully, 'as your representative for the Samuel Miller District,' and that is the only purpose for my name being there." The applicant was represented by Mr. Rick Carter. His comments included the following: --The applicant prepared the proffers which have been submitted after having met with staff after the last meeting. The proffers attempted to address "concerns that we could address at this time ---the water, the roads and the stream crossing." --The applicant only "this morning" received a copy of the memorandum from the Water Resources Manager and has not had time to consider amendments to the proffers based on the comments in that memorandum. However, after an initial review of the memo, "certainly, in concept, we don't have any problems with any of the contents of this memorandum," but first the applicant must be certain he understands the standards, regulations, etc. referred to in the memo. --He could not recall having been asked to "submit a plan" with other rezonings that he has been involved in. --The applicants have lived in the North Garden area for 110 years (combined); they live near this site and would not do anything that would hurt the area. --The applicant does not have the financial resources that some applicants may have but are prepared to follow the process one -step -at -a -time and has hired some of the best experts in the area (Eichmann, Gioeckner, Gooch). --This site is designated as VR in the Comprehensive Plan, though the zoning is currently in place. Currently this is a "pipestem" subdivision. 19 duplexes could be built on the property and "everyone could pipestem down to the non-tolderable roads." The roads will be non -tolerable regardless of whether this application is approved or the status of the property remains as is. --Once the VR zoning is in place, "we want to come in with the flexibility of coming up with a design that is going to be a better use of this property." --The property is within the area designated for VR and the roads are in the Six -Year Road Plan for upgrading. --The envisioned plan for the property "takes a non -tolerable existing subdivision and gives it the zoning 2-23-93 with the flexibility to make something that's going to have open space, that is going to be clustered, and is going to be the type of housing that is needed in this county." --The applicant has proffered not to build anything "past 39 units" until all issues related to water have been resolved. In response to Mr. Blue's question about preliminary reports from the Soil Scientist (Gooch), Mr. Yancey explained that he had located 114 well sites that he is very comfortable with." He noted also that a representative from both the local Health Department and the State Health Department had located 4 or 5 sites which were "real close" to those chosen by Mr. Gooch. Mr. Gooch also gave a favorable report in terms of the soil's perking capability. The Chairman invited public comment. The following persons spoke in opposition to the request: Ms. Rae Ely (attorney representing many of the North Garden homeowners); Mr. John Waring; and Mr. Dave Krevitz. Their comments included the following: --Ms. Ely felt there was a possible "problem with asking for additional public comment, generally, because (she believed) the meeting, last time, was officially closed to public comment." [The Chairman and Mr. Bowling advised Ms. Ely that the public meeting has been "re -opened this evening." Mr. Bowling explained that no further notice was required because the item had been deferred to a specific date at the last public hearing. Ms. Ely commented: "I have reviewed the transcript and the tapes of the last meeting and I think, probably it would not be appropriate for general re -opening of the public hearing, but, of course, that would be your call to make." NOTE: The minutes of this meeting were not transcribed by the Recording Secretary until March 5, 1993; therefore, any transcript referred to by Ms. Ely was one done by someone other than County staff after listening to the tapes of the meeting.] --The application is premature because the work has not been performed to satisfy the County's regulations, the Comprehensive Plan, and the questions raised by staff and the Commission. --Impact on dangerous roads, the schools and groundwater. --The development will change the character of the area. --Additional burden on the fire department. Ms. Kathy Woodson, a North Garden resident, expressed support for the proposal. (She pointed out that Ms. Ely did not represent all the landowners in North Garden.) She stressed that the applicants had lived in the area all their 2-23-93 g lives and she felt they could be trusted "not to do anything until these concerns are satisfied." There being no further public comment, the matter was placed before the Commission. Mr. Johnson felt that the 6 items identified in the staff report must be effectively addressed before a thorough evaluation of the proposal can take place. He reminded the Commission that the applicant had not been required to "prove" the existence of water at the last hearing,tbut he had been asked to react to those 6 items identified in the staff report. He noted that the Comprehensive Plan recognizes a significant water problem in this area and therefore there is a specific requirement for verification of adequate water prior to any rezoning. He felt that the applicant failed, for the second time, to present adequate information regarding any of the 6 issues identified. He concluded that he could not support the request. MOTION: Mr. Johnson moved that ZMA-92-13 be recommended for denial to the Board of Supervisors. Ms. Huckle seconded the motion. Discussion: Mr. Blue stated he would support the motion based on those reasons enumerated by Mr. Johnson. However, he noted that it was his feeling that the Comprehensive Plan had been in error in recommending this area be zoned for Village Residential, "at the same time holding out the requirement that you had to prove that the groundwater was available because we all know that there is no public water available." He noted that while it is possible to get a lot of technical opinion about groundwater, "most of us realize that, at best, it's a guess." He concluded: "My point is that maybe this whole area shouldn't have been Village Residential in the first place and that is matter I'd like staff to take under consideration when the Comprehensive Plan comes up for review." Mr. Blue also felt that the statement made in the Resolution from the Service Authority ---that "the Albemarle County Service Authority does not consider central groundwater systems to be a reliable, permanent source of water for sizeable populations" --was a "terrible statement." He felt it was necessary to define "sizeable" because what is sizeable to one developer may not be sizeable to the next. Ms. Huckle asked if there should be a Resolution of Intent to amend the Comprehensive Plan in respect to this VR designation or should it wait until the full review of the Comprehensive Plan. Mr. Cilimberg explained that either approach was possible, but because of other studies which are already underway, it would be some time before this item EGG 2-23-93 9 could be addressed and the Comp Plan review is scheduled to begin in the Fall. It was his recommendation that the issue be addressed with the full review of the Plan. Mr. Cilimberg stated he would place the letters which have been received in the files for the Comp Plan review. Mr. Jenkins recalled that during the last Comp Plan review there had been a lot of pressure not to develop in the watershed and as a result areas such as this (along with a couple of others) were designated VR because there are already significant populations in these areas. VOTE: The motion to recommend denial of ZMA-92-13 passed (5:2) with Commissioners Jenkins and Nitchmann casting the dissenting votes. The Chairman called for discussion of SP-93-02 (request to cross the floodplain). He noted that the Board could reverse the Commission's position and approve the request for the ZMA. MOTION: Ms. Huckle moved, seconded by Ms. Andersen, that SP-93-02 for George and William Clark be recommended to the Board of Supervisors for denial. Discussion: Mr. Jenkins was in favor of approaching this situation in a different manner, i.e. instead of viewing the VR designation as a mistake try to arrive at "some mechanism to move it forward." He questioned whether the proposed intensity was acceptable, but he noted that it is already zoned "fairly intensly." Mr. Blue agreed. He noted that he had at first felt most anything would be an improvement over the existing plan, until he had become more familiar with the water situation, after which he had been uncertain. Mr. Blue asked if approval of the special permit would apply only if the zoning amendment is approved or if it could be used with the existing zoning. Mr. Fritz explained that the special permit "could stand on its own merits," but staff's recommendation remains the same based on the lack of data which has been provided. Ms. Huckle pointed out that the location of the crossing has not been determined and no engineering data has been supplied. Mr. Blue understood Ms. Huckle's concern, but noted that there are probably sufficient regulations on the books to address any concerns at the time the plans are presented. a2 6 -i 2-23-93 10 He questioned whether it was the Commission's role to address technical questions, rather the Commission's role is to approve the concept. Ms. Huckle felt that requests for floodplain crossings have historically provided technical and locational information. Mr. Blue asked: "What difference does it make? How can we make the decision as to how the engineering data is going tD be applied? We can't do that anyway. It's just the concept of whether or not we want the floodplain crossed. As I see it, that's our responsibility." Ms. Huckle recalled that the applicant had "threatened" at the previous hearing that he could build 19 floodplain crossings. She asked: "Are you just going to give a blanket approval without a specific site in mind, are you going to be approving 19 or one, or what?" In the event the Board agrees with the Commission's recommendation and denies the rezoning, Mr. Blue suggested the possibility that approval of the floodplain crossing might allow the applicant to come up with some method where they will have one crossing, possibly two, and do a better job than they have now with the 19." He remembered, however, that a permit would be needed for each stream crossing. VOTE: The motion to recommend denial of SP-93-02 passed (4:3) with Commissioners Andersen, Grimm, Huckle and Johnson voting in favor and Commissioners Blue, Jenkins and Nitchman voting against. Mr. Keeler briefly explained the Rural Preservation Development which he felt might be an option to the applicant in the event the Board denies the rezoning request. Though the Chairman advised her that the public hearing had been closed, Ms. Ely ignored this direction and proceeded to address the Commission, though she was out of order. She recommended that the Commission pursue Ms. Huckle's suggestion and address the issue of whether or not this area should be designated VR. Ms. Yancey requested permission to respond to Ms. Ely's statement. The Chair advised that the meeting was closed. Mr. Yancey asked: "But it's open to her and it's not open to me?" Mr. Blue expressed the opinion that Mr. Yancey should be allowed to comment. ni A 2-23-93 11 Ms. Andersen felt that the meeting should be conducted in a "more formal setting and a less out -of -hand setting and that when public hearings are closed, they are closed." She noted that this had been "dishonored, accidentally," and thus, meetings have become progressively less formal. She stated: "In the interests of not seeing that things get out of hand, I would like to honor the statement that the 'public hearing has been closed."' Mr. Johnson advised the public that there would be a schedule for the upcoming review of the Comprehensive Plan. He felt opening the issue at this time would be inappropriate and non -productive. He felt substantial engineering data would be appropriate regarding the water question at the time the issue is discussed. Mr. Blue felt there would be no harm in hearing the opinion of those present regarding the question of the appropriateness of VR designation for North Garden Mr. Grimm felt there would be ample opportunity to address this issue at the appropriate time. Ms. Huckle asked if the Chairman would call for a show -of - hands of those persons who feel that the VR designation is inappropriate for the North Garden area. (Approximately 18 persons raised their hands.) Mr. Johnson suggested that the community appoint a spokesperson who would keep in touch with the county staff and thus be better prepared to present their position. Mr. Blue noted that he would request that the Chairman invite public comment on the issue of the appropriateness of VR designation for North Garden at the end of the agenda, under New Business. OLD BUSINESS March a Work Session - Mr. Nitchmann reported that his proposed change to the Comprehensive Plan regarding the economic vitality of the County would be discussed at the March 9th work session. March 16 Work Session - Staff anticipates a work session on March 16 for discussion of amendments to the Comprehensive Plan related to the Schuyler area. 2-23-93 12 There was a brief discussion of the way Commission meetings are conducted. The idea of an "open forum" was once again discussed (as it had been previously). Mr. Johnson again expressed his support for the idea. In the interests of gathering as much information as possible when it is available, Mr. Blue expressed the feeling that all persons who are present to speak to a specific issue (that is presently before the Commission) should have the opportunity to speak. Ms. Andersen explained that she felt that public hearings should be conducted in an orderly fashion. She stated that she had not meant to imply that a meeting could not be re -opened for further comment. Her main concern was that in the past, because of some informality in the conduct of the meeting, equal time had not been given to both sides of an issue. Mr. Cilimberg reminded the Commission that staff has always made the Commission aware of issues which have been brought up by the public and those issues are usually discussed at the end of the agenda (under Old Business), provided they are issues which have already been reviewed by the Commission. or are issues which have no connection to an upcoming review. NEW BUSINESS (The County Attorney advised that hearing public comment on a general topic, which did not involve a specific application, was acceptable.) Public Comment on t he VR Designation for North rzarden - The Chairman invited public comment. The following members of the public addressed the Commission and expressed opposition to the VR designation, all primarily because of water inadequacy: Beth Reynolds - She recalled that the village concept had been developed to accommodate forecasted population increases, but those forecasts have proven to be inaccurate. She explained that the provisions about adequate water had been added to the Comprehensive Plan because of citizen concerns. (200 persons had attended a public hearing to voice concerns about water adequacy.) She quoted from a 2--23-93 13 1988 memo from the ACSA (W L. Rossi, Chief Engineer): "The increased population with corresponding water needs does not look optimistic for well development due to expected low groundwater yields and reliability. One could expect problems similar to those encountered in the Lovingston area where wells decreased in flow with use. To encourage development under such conditions does not appear to be in the best interests of the County." She felt North Garden should remain rural. Ms. Anne Smith - She did not want North Garden to become like Crozet. She was opposed to VR designation. Ms. Ruth Rawlins - She described problems which she, and several neighbors have had with inadequate wells, including financing problems, and insurance problems. Ms. Anne Messina - She described problems with wells at Red Hill School. She expressed support for the Rural Preservation Development concept. Ms. Pat Simpson - She expressed concern that no proposal has been made to study the effect of new wells on existing wells. Ms. Becky Woodson (a former resident of North Garden) -a She was opposed to any growth in the area. Mr. John Messinger - He noted that North Garden is an integrated neighborhood and expressed the fear that many of the Black citizens of North Garden have not attended public hearings to express their opposition to the proposal because of fear or economic considerations. Mr. John Garofalo - He expressed his opposition to the VR designation. He noted that the only North Garden resident who had supported the Clark proposal had been the applicant's sister. Mr. Thomas Carter - There is no reason to abide by a Comprehensive Plan which relied on growth projections that have not happened and are not likely to happen in the near future. He felt growth could better be accommodated through the Rural Preservation Development approach. Mr. Kurt Gloeckner, a local engineer and former Planning Commissioner, addressed the Commission. He recalled some of the history of the VR designation for North Garden. His comments included the following: --The County is still faced with the dilemma of the majority of building taking place in rural areas. The Village concept was an attempt to put residential neighborhoods into a more confined, well -organized community, as opposed to continued sprawl all over Albemarle County. Staff had searched for already developing areas, with crossroads. 2-23-93 14 --The Stone -Robinson School area and the Keswick area were also to be villages. --Little-by-little, because of opposition (to the village designations), the rural sprawl is continuing. --He did not know the answer to the question of "how to stop growth in the rural areas and at the same time have development occur where the infrastructure is or will exist at some time." --There must be a starting point for the development of a village area, and the North Garden area would be one of the first attempts. "If the County wants that kind of thing they are going to have to supply the infrastructure. There are places where there are water supplies that can be developed. The County is going to have to pay for those things to develop, otherwise we are going to continue to grow in the rural spaces." --He recalled there had been citizen opposition to the VR designation for North Garden at the time it had been done, but the designation was applied to 5 or B neighborhoods and ... they keep being deleted as the paticular neighborhoods grow out of their own rural development and then there is enough opposition to oppose any beginnings of a village. --Water supply for Albemarle County should be surface water supplies as the terrain is suited for dams. Drilling holes is an extremely expensive matter and to ask ordinary landowners to prove groundwater adequacy is not within most people's means. --"When you deliberate over village neighborhoods, it is either that or develop a concentric ring continuously around Charlottesville and let that be the high -density sprawl and the urban sprawl." --"You can't start backing away from these things because the original concept was to stop the rural, parcel - by -parcel development." --The burden of supplying water to developments was placed on developers and as a result the Service Authority has had to rescue many private water systems which were either substandard or failing. --"You are not going to depend on wells to support a village residential community. That notion has to stop. It has to be surface water with a dam on a small scale... villages can survive off surface water with 44 inches of rain per year and the terrain and the clay that we have." Mr. Blue stated he was not backing away from the village concept, "except when the infrastructure is not there, ,.2 7,7 2-23-93 15 particularly the infrastructure for water." He did not think North Garden was a good candidate for a village because there is no public water supply available and none actually "economically possible." Ms. Huckle stated that a village designation has to be determined by whether or not water exists on the property She stated that regardless of the amount of money that might be spent, "if the water is not there in the ground, you're not going to create it. So if an area has a history of inadequate water, that seems to be an inappropriate place to designate concentrated growth." Ms. Huckle brought up the issue of the Clean Water Act which requires testing for 87 different factors. She felt this would cause a lot of the community water systems to "give up" because they can't afford the testing. Mr. Gloeckner responded: "Those are the negative approaches to development. if you take the positive approaches and require those items, you will direct the development. What we're doing now is we're defensively planning instead of offensively planning. The idea is to create the space and then follow through with it." In answer to Mr. Johnson's question as to a possible solution to the situation, Mr. Gloeckner commented: "I think one of the biggest helps would be for staff to put together a history of the deliberations of the past and how some of these things got started and how they become implemented is the hard part. It takes rezonings to get the villages started and to present a rezoning is an extremely expensive operation." There being no further busi 9:45 p.m. RS ss, the meeting adjourned at it i1 ) . /d /) - l Wayn)o Cilimber'g, 19ecretary a 73