HomeMy WebLinkAbout06 15 1993 PC Minutes6-15-93
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JUNE 15, 1993
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public
hearing on Tuesday, June 15, 1993, Meeting Room 7, County
Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members
present were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Walter Johnson,
Vice Chairman; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Mr. Tom Blue; and Ms. Babs
Huckle. Other officials present were: Mr. David Benish,
Chief of Community Development; Mr. Bill Fritz, Senior
Planner; Mr. Ken Baker, Senior Planner; and Mr. Jim Bowling,
Deputy County Attorney. Absent: Commissioners Nitchmann
and Andersen.
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and
established that a quorum was present. The minutes of May
18, 1993 were approved as amended.
North Fork Business Park - Rearuest for Private Roads - Mr.
Fritz presented the staff report. Staff recommended
approval of the request, subject to conditions. The report
stated: "Based on the reduced grading for private roads,
staff is able to support the request. Staff also notes that
this development is a planned development industrial park
under unified control and therefore maintenance can be
insured."
In response to Ms. Huckle's concern about control of
on -street parking on private roads, Mr. Fritz explained that
there is some control through the site review process, i.e.
parking can be restricted to designated areas only.
Mr. Fritz confirmed that the previously existing conditions
on the property will remain.
Mr. Johnson called attention to a statement contained in a
January 22, 1993 letter to UREF, from Mr. Cilimberg. i.e.
"...unanimously approved the above -noted request to amend
agreement #16 of ZMA-78-15 to permit use of private roads."
He interpreted this to mean "they have the authority to use
private roads." Mr. Fritz stated the approval granted by
the letter referred to by Mr. Johnson gave the applicant the
authority of "request" private roads. Mr. Fritz called
attention to a sentence which was added to condition No. 16
of the previous approval which stated: "Nothing contained
in this condition will preclude the applicant from
requesting private roads in the future." Mr. Johnson felt
the letter was misleading. He felt condition No. 16 could
be interpreted as referring to "future" roads "over and
above that which was the subject of ZMA-78-15."
Mr. Blue agreed that there was a lack of preciseness in the
wording of the letter. However, he recalled that the former
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approval had granted the applicant the right to request
private roads.
Mr. Johnson felt that the record should show that "authority
was granted to request private roads and not agreed to
permit use of private roads."
Mr. Blue noted that the concept of linking subdivisions
together through major roads appears to have been almost
abandoned. Though he agreed there was validity to the
concern about eliminating thru-traffic through subdivisions
where children are apt to be playing, he pointed out that
this prevents the approval of major arteries and makes it
difficult to, for instance, relieve the traffic problems on
Rt. 29. He felt this was a "perfect time to request that
we have a good road, built to the proper standards, that
would prevent people from having to go around Robin's barn
to get to the airport." He noted that if these roads are
private the owners have the right to close them off. He
concluded that public roads would be beneficial.
Mr. Blue also called attention to the fact that the
applicant "barely" meets the 30% standard for less
environmental degradation for private roads.
Mr. Fritz pointed out the road which "would have the most
significance between use of public vs. private." He
reminded the Commission that "less" than the applicant's
request could be approved, e.g. one road could be public and
one private. Mr. Fritz also explained that private roads
will have to be built to VDOT standards, but the difference
is that the standards will be rolling terrain for public
roads and mountainous terrain for private roads.
Mr. Blue continued to express concern about the fact that if
the roads are private, they can be "cut off" at any time.
Mr. Fritz clarified: "The provision under which they are
requesting private roads, in and of itself, has nothing to
do with significant degradation. Merely by the fact that it
is a non-residential use, they can request private roads.
We simply have utilized that 30% rule that's found elsewhere
in the ordinance as a guide."
Ms. Huckle expressed concern about the use of private roads
in an industrial development. She stated: "It just doesn't
seem right for an industrial use with those huge trailers to
try to use curvet', hilly roads. They'll have trouble
getting up the grades; there's not going to be much room for
them to manuver."
Mr. Grimm asked how much of the roadway would benefit from
mountainous standards. Mr. Fritz replied: "It's very few
locations --a stream crossing is probably the most
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significant place where it benefits by significantly
reducing the amount of fill that's needed."
The applicant was represented by Mr. Sam Heminway. His
comments included the following:
--There are two substantial stream crossings, and
private roads will significantly reduce (30 to 40% less) the
amount of work in the stream bed.
--Road A, with public roads, will include a significant
amount of stream degradation.
--Landscaping will be substantially different for a
public road (because of VDOT restrictions on plantings in
their right-of-way).
--VDOT will not allow utilities to be placed in their
right-of-way.
Mr. Johnson asked if all concerns related to the Rt. 29
intersections with these roads have been addressed by VDOT,
i.e. distance between crossovers, traffic lights, etc. Mr.
Fritz explained that crossover closings and locations have
been set since 1978 (updated in 1990). He also stated that
there is no alternative access point on Rt. 29.
Mr. Heminway was unable to answer Mr. Blue's question as to
the cost savings in a private vs. a public road. He did not
think it would be significant.
In answer to Mr. Johnson's question, Mr. Heminway explained
the applicant is requesting private roads because they will
involve significantly less environmental degradation.
There being no public comment, the matter was placed before
the Commission.
Mr. Grimm expressed support for the request for private
roads. He felt this would make the property more attractive
and, therefore, more marketable, to potential industries.
Mr. Johnson made the following statement: "Section 18-36(d)
states that 'no subdivision shall be approved... unless... the
Commission (determines) that (4) Except where required by
the Commission to serve a specific public purpose, such
private road shallnot be designed to serve through traffic
nor to intersect the state highway system in more than one
location.' As a commercial 'business park' convenient
access by the public may be an important factor effecting
its success. Section 18-36(e) (1) states that private roads
permitted under subsection 18-36(b)(3) shall conform to the
requirements of Table B except that etc. In addition it
states that mountainous terrain design standards may be
authorized 'upon finding that for a specific, identifiable
reason, the general public interest as opposed to the
proprietary interest of the subdivider, would be better
served.' The Engineering Department comments that public
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roads may cause degradation which is 'marginally
significant,' but 'road plans as submitted are not
optimized' and 'further refinement and more efficient
balancing of cut and fills would reduce the percentage
increase (of earthwork).' Regarding the stream crossings,
public roads may require more fill than a private road. I
support your comments relative to doing anything that we can
to support the success probability of the operation, but in
a private road there are definitely increased costs which
effect the increase of operation and these are increased
costs related to maintenance, repair and liability.... And
this doesn't consider the possibility of ultimately the
County having to take over operation of these roads. In
this case, to me, the justification of a private road
because of less impact on the area does not counterbalance
the other disadvantages and I cannot support the request."
Mr. Grimm noted that in order for the development to be a
success it must have convenient access. Mr. Johnson felt a
public road offers more convenient access than does a
private one.
In response to Mr. Blue's question about roads in existing
industrial developments, Mr. Benish explained that there is
a mixture. He went on to explain that the decision "caters
to the character of the development that is being proposed."
Ms. Huckle felt that though aesthetics are important, they
are not as important as safety. She expressed concern about
the recent approval of Peter Jefferson Place with private
roads being construed as a precedent. She concluded she
could not support this proposal. (Mr. Fritz clarified that
staff's recommendation had not been based on the action on
Peter Jefferson Place. That development had been used only
as a guideline since it is the only recent example of
comparable size. Staff did not intend to set a precedent.)
Mr. Jenkins felt one argument for approving the request
might be based on the letter given the applicant by the
Board of Supervisors saying they "would entertain making the
roads private." He stated there was no doubt in his mind
that the road from Rt. 29 to the airport would get a great
deal of use and should, therefore, be a public road. He
stated he could not support both roads being private.
Mr. Blue agreed. He did not think the justification of less
environmental degradation was convincing since it was a very
marginal difference. He supported the road from 29 to 606
being a public road. He was not opposed to the other road
being private.
MOTION: Mr. Jenkins moved, seconded by Mr. Blue, that Road
A (from Rt. 606 to Rt. 29) be a public road and that Road B
be a private road.
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Discussion:
Mr. Johnson stated he would not support the motion because
the applicant has made no claim that Road B, as a private
road, would have any effect on his success.
Mr. Fritz recommended the following amended conditions:
No. 2: "Department of Engineering approval of road plans
for Road B as shown on a plan initialled WDF, dated
6-15-93;" and add No. 3: "Road A as shown on a plan
initialled WDF and dated 6-15-93 shall be public."
Ms. Huckle agreed this would be preferable to both roads
being private. However, she stated this still would not
address her concerns "about somebody less responsible
latching onto this because it is going to be cheaper and
then we're going to have bad problems."
The motion failed to pass (2:3) with Commissioners Blue and
Jenkins voting for the motion and Commissioners Johnson,
Huckle and Grimm voting against.
MOTION: Mr. Johnson moved, seconded by Ms. Huckle, that the
request for private roads for North Fork Business Park be
denied based on those concerns identified in the discussion.
The motion passed (4:1) with Commissioner Grimm casting the
dissenting vote.
WORK SESSION
Housing Committee - Mr. Benish introduced the topic. The
purpose of the work session was to begin discussion of the
creation of a standing committee on housing including its
function, membership and relationship within the
governmental structure.
Significant comments:
Johnson: He felt the purpose "puts the benefits to humans
in an equal status with material items." He suggested this
alternative: "To promote a variety of safe, sanitary, and
affordable housing types for county residents of all income
groups."
He felt this was more in line with the statement in the
Comprehensive Plan.
Johnson: He felt the Housing Commission should report to
the Housing Coordinator and not to the Board of Supervisors.
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(Mr. Benish explained that the Housing Commission would be
equal to the Planning Commission, with members appointed by
the Board of Supervisors.)
Johnson: He suggested that there should be legal
representation on the Commission, or at least access to
legal counsel.
Johnson: He questioned whether Karen Lilleleht and Jenny
Greenwood, who were recommended in Ms. Perry's April 30
letter, would have time to serve on the Committee.
Johnson: He recommended the following Charter for the
Housing Commission:
(1) Identify and evaluate those processes in being and
potential to achieve affordable housing within Albemarle
County.
(2) In each case, make specific recommendations for
continuation, change, abandonment or acceptance, as
appropriate.
(3) In all cases, complete social and economic impacts
of these will be identified and evaluated.
(4) A formal report of operations will be made
annually to the Housing Coordinator. Interim reports may be
made as appropriate.
HUCKLE: She expressed concern about the implication in the
Housing Coalition's Charter which implied that housing and
environmental considerations were equal. She stated: "I
agree that housing is very important, but not to the extent
of overriding environmental considerations. I don't mean
aesthetics and trees, etc. I'm talking about using
experimental, untried, unapproved on -site sewage disposal
systems on land which may be cheap because it isn't really
suitable for dwellings. I do not not think it is humane to
sell, or give some poor person some property which is going
to create health problems, .... I do not think it is humane
to lower our environmental standards or considerations for
low-cost housing."
BLUE: He agreed with Ms. Huckle's concerns, but added:
"But I wouldn't want the inference to be that we wouldn't
consider any other types of sewage disposal."
The Chairman invited public comment.
Mr. Donald Hansen, Chairman of the Albemarle Housing
Coalition, addressed the Commission. His comments and
recommendations included the following:
--The name of the Committee should be changed to a
Commission, given the long-term aspect of the proposal.
--Housing uses more land than any other sector (except
agricultural), and therefore environmental concerns are very
important.
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--At least 7-9 members should be appointed to the
Housing Commission, with the make-up to include a private
sector builder, a non-profit sector builder, a banking
representative, a real estate representative, a legal and
zoning representative, and a representative of a broadly
based community organization, a church representative and a
low-income family representative.
--He expressed no opposition to the "more succinct"
charter proposed by Mr. Johnson "as long as the intent of
what we stated is followed."
Continued Commission comment:
Attempting to clarify what would be presented to the Board,
Mr. Benish asked if the Commission had any objections to
adding back in two sentences which had been inadvertantly
omitted, one related to the proposed Housing Commission's
status being on an equal level with the Planning Commission
which would answer directly to the Board, and the other
related to the County Attorney serving as the legal
representative on the Commission.
JOHNSON: He felt it would be inappropriate for the proposed
Commission to report to the Board. He felt the Housing
Commission should report to the Housing Coordinator. (Mr.
Benish pointed out that the Housing Coordinator would be a
staff position. He felt it was intended that the elected
officials should have ultimate oversight of the Housing
Commission.) Mr. Johnson felt this question should brought
to the attention of the County Executive's Office. He felt
the position of Housing Coordinator had to have "some
authority" in order to be able to implement directives from
the Board. He felt this was a county -wide problem, i.e. "We
have a myriad of separate organizations, both privately and
publicly funded, and each one thinks they're driving, and
there isn't any central coordination which should result in
a significant increase in efficiency and productivity."
BLUE: He pointed out a difference in the appointment
process between the two Commissions in that the Housing
Commission will be made of persons with specific areas of
expertise.
HUCKLE: She noted that the Board of Supervisors should be
the ultimate policy -setter because "this is all going to
cost money and they are the ones who appropriate the money."
JOHNSON: Regarding legal representative on the Commission,
he felt the members should be "drawn from the list."
Regarding the County Attorney serving on the Commission, Mr.
Johnson stated: "The County Attorney will advise when
asked, but to obligate him to be on here, we're making the
cost of government higher and higher and we don't need to.
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If we can get an appropriate legal volunteer with legal
background to participate on this committee free of
charge --if something comes up the County Attorney can make a
decision --but we don't have to pay him for it."
HUCKLE: She was in favor of the County Attorney serving on
the Commission because she felt having two attorneys
involved could cause problems.
Mr. Benish asked if the Commission had any objections to a
representative from a "non-profit human services agency
serving low-income clients and/or a low-income resident."
(The Commission did not respond to Mr. Benish's question.)
No action was taken by the Commission. Staff was directed
to finalize the report based on the Commission's comments
and present it briefly at a future meeting.
Mr. Benish stated staff would incorporate Mr. Johnson's
suggestions for a charter into the report (if there was no
opposition from the Commission). No opposition was
expressed.
Mr. Blue expressed agreement with Mr. Johnson's
recommendation that the "purpose" should reflect the
Comprehensive Plan's definition.
Mr. Johnson felt it was important to study how other areas
have dealt with this issue, e.g. do they have a Housing
Coordinator, how are they organized administratively?
Mr. Johnson recognized Ms. Kobby Hoffman for her role in
getting a rental rate adjustment by HUD.
Neighborhood Three Stud - Mr. Benish introduced the topic
and explained some of the background for the upcoming review
process.
Mr. Johnson made "general comments relative to the whole
process." Those comments are attached to this record as
ATTACHMENT A. He felt his proposal could eliminate a
significant amount of time from the review process.
Responding to Mr. Johnson's criticism of the process, Mr.
Blue pointed out that this process had resulted in some
valuable public participation which would not have been
possible otherwise. Mr. Grimm agreed.
Mr. Johnson did not take exception to Mr. Blue's and Mr.
Grimm's comments. However; he stressed that the issues
addressed in the report "already exist, already have been
documented and already are given periodic reviews." He felt
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much more could be accomplished by "cross-referencing." He
stressed that his main objection is to "creating a document
which is repetitive."
The Commission continued to discuss the process, with all
Commissioners, except Mr. Johnson, being in favor of the
existing review system.
Ms. Huckle asked specific questions about:
--The location of the public sewer ("how far does it
go?"). Is there a plan for the line to be extended to the
car dealerships area?
--Will the County pay for the proposed sidewalks? She
noted that in other jurisdictions sidewalks are paid for by
additional taxes.
--Is there any way to address the appearance of the
backs of buildings (as they are seen from the river)?
Referring to page 24, Mr. Blue could not recall having
discussed the Pen Park Bridge in the detail shown in the
report. (Mr. Baker explained that the information shown was
taken from the Greenway Study.)
The Commission took no action. Staff was directed to
schedule another work session for continued review of this
topic.
MISCELLANEOUS
Mr. Johnson reported that he had attended a transportation
meeting where a major concern had been that the "counties
are not laying out plans for these accesses and entryways
into the cities until too late." He felt the County is in
no better shape in this respect than it was 10 years ago.
He felt the most probable route for major accesses (for the
next decade) should be planned for now.
CIP Technical Committee - Mr. Johnson agreed to represent
the Commission on this Committee.
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