HomeMy WebLinkAbout09 09 1993 PC Minutes9-9-93
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SEPTEMBER 9, 1993
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public
hearing on Thursday, September 9, 1993, Meeting Room 7,
County Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those
members present were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Walter
Johnson, Vice Chairman; Mr. William Nitchmann; Mr. Tom
Jenkins; Mr. Tom Blue; Ms. Ellen Andersen; and Ms. Babs
Huckle. Other officials present were: Mr. Bill Fritz,
Senior Planner; Mr. Ron Keeler, Chief of Planning, and Mr.
Jim Bowling, Deputy County Attorney.
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and
established that a quorum was present.
-93-25 as rax Entertainment, (applicant), Rio
Associates Limited PartnershiR (owner)
This item was unanimously deferred to September 21 at the
request of the applicant.
SP-93-23 Albemarle County Fair. Inc (applicant) Roy & Bonnie
Coggin (owner)
This item was unanimously deferred to September 28 at the
request of the applicant.
SP-93-24 Demmie Main (applicant). Chestnut Grove Baptist
Church (owner) - Petition to operate a day care for up to 20
children in the existing Chestnut Grove Baptist Church
[10.2.2(7)]. Property, described as Tax Map 19, parcel 17,
consists of 10.7 acres zoned RA, Rural Areas and is located
in the northern corner of the Rt. 663/Rt. 664 intersection
in the White Hall Magisterial District. This property is
not located within a designated growth area (Rural Area I).
Mr. Fritz presented the staff report. Because of a lack of
adequate sight distance on both 663 and 664, staff was
recommending denial of the request. [NOTE: 450 feet was
needed at both access points; 250 feet was available at one
entrance, and 275 at the other.]
It was determined staff had not received a copy of a letter
(dated September 6) which the applicant had sent to
Commissioners.
The applicant was represented by Ms. Demmie Main. She gave
a presentation during which she presented the results of
studies she had made in relation to sight distance and
traffic counts. Her comments included the following:
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--The Earlysville area is full of winding roads and
many situations which do not, by VDOT standards, have
adequate sight distance.
--She questioned the necessity for 450 feet of sight
distance during times other than peak traffic hours.
--She disagreed with VDOT's measurments. Her
measurements had shown there to be 300 feet (rather than
275) on Rt. 664. She presented photographs which depicted
how, and at what locations she had taken the measurements.
--No parents have ever expressed the feeling that the
access points are a danger to their children.
--The school hours (9:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.) are not
peak traffic times.
--VDOT has been contacted to see if "Caution -Children
Playing" signs can be placed on the highway.
--VDOT is going to see if it may be possible, after
having performed a speed study, to reduce the speed limit
the area. (This would result in a reduction in the sight
distance requirement.)
--The church is a highly used facility and is used by
many groups throughout the week.
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--It is a goal of the school to meet the needs of lower
income families.
Mr. Blue pointed out to the applicant, that though he was
sympathetic to the request and impressed by the research
done by the applicant, the Commission must rely on the
Virginia Department of Highways as its traffic expert. He
stated that if measures could be taken (such as signage and
a reduction in speed limit) which would cause VDOT to
determine that safety was no longer an issue, then he would
have no problem in supporting the request. But, "unless we
can do that, we, as a Commission, would be remiss to approve
something that our experts--VDOT--say is unsafe and may
cause accidents." Mr. Blue pointed out that traffic numbers
really have no bearing on an unsafe situation except for the
fact that the likelihood of an accident increases with
increased traffic count. But if a situation is unsafe, it
only takes one car travelling at an unsafe speed from the
north to collide with a parent pulling out onto the road
(Rt. 664). He concluded: "And if we approve something that
VDOT says would be unsafe because of that I think we would
be wrong." He hoped the applicant could work out some
alternatives with VDOT which would lead them to change their
recommendation.
Ms. Main felt that not all rules can apply to Rural Areas
and that some exceptions might need to be made. She felt
there was a growing need for day-care and preschools in
rural areas. She pointed out that placing these children in
vehicles on Rt. 29 (to reach preschools in town) is
certainly as dangerous as having them in preschool only a
couple of miles from home.
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In response to Mr. Johnson's inquiry, Ms. Main explained the
present status of the pre-school operation and the history of its
existence. She confirmed that, over the last year, she has been
operating with 20 students, from 9 a.m. to 12:30 p.m., just as
she is currently requesting. She had only recently become aware
that she was operating in violation of the Ordinance and is
attempting to correct that error.
Ms. Main pointed out to the Commission that it is possible to
see, when there is no foilage on the trees, around the curve on
Rt. 664. She stated she would make all of her parents aware of
this situation.
The Chairman invited public comment.
The following persons expressed support for the request and
praise for Ms. Main: Mr. Kenny Williams; Ms. Marge Wolfrey; Mr.
Greg Quinn; Mr. Steve Williams; Ms. Kim Davis; Ms. Deb Short.
Their comments included the following:
--A pre-school (with 12 to 15 children) has been operating
at the church for approximately 12 years. There has never been a
school -related highway accident during that time.
--It may be possible to close the access on Rt. 663, during
the hours the pre-school is in session. (Mr. Blue agreed that
the exit onto Rt. 663 is much more dangerous than on Rt. 664.)
--There is a need for this type of early christian
education.
--Closing this school will make it impossible for several
children to attend pre-school.
There being no further public comment, the matter was placed
before the Commission.
Mr. Blue acknowledged that there are other similar situations
throughout Earlysville and even at this same church which is used
by several different organizations throughout the week. However,
he stated the Commission did not have the responsibility of
addressing those situations. He felt the safety issue was
"paramount." He asked if staff felt it was possible to work with
VDOT to arrive at some other alternatives which might improve the
situation, other than re -grading the road.
Mr. Keeler responded that staff would work with VDOT to see if a
combination of possibilities might be possible. Staff would
inform the Commission of VDOT's comments. Referring to a comment
made by Ms. Main about an "engineering study" which VDOT told her
they were going to do, Mr. Keeler felt this was probably a "speed
study" and may or may not result in a reduction in the sight
distance requirements. Past history has shown that these studies
often show that traffic is actually travelling faster than the
posted speed limit which could result in an even greater sight
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distance requirement. Mr. Blue suggested that the possibility of
closing the exit on Rt. 663 should be explored with VDOT. (Mr.
Johnson agreed. He also suggested that the possibility of
"Caution" signs should be posed to VDOT.)
Mr. Keeler offered to arrange a meeting with the applicant, staff
and VDOT officials.
Mr. Grimm expressed support for a deferral.
Mr. Johnson expressed support for staff's suggested conditions.
He suggested that a third condition be added addressing the hours
of operation (9:00 a.m, to 12:30 p.m.).
There was a brief discussion as to whether or not a deferral
would be to a specific date or indefinitely. Mr. Bowling stated
that an indefinite deferral would require readvertising the item.
Mr. Jenkins pointed out that since school has already commenced
he felt the applicant, and patrons of the school, would not be
anxious for a long delay. He pointed out that the church has
been there for many, many years (220 years). He concluded: "I
don't want to be guilty of approving something that causes an
accident, but if I weigh all the issues, I'll vote for it." He
stated he would support the request even if VDOT continues to
give unfavorable comments.
Mr. Blue noted that there might be other Commissioners who shared
Mr. Jenkins' view.
Mr. Nitchmann stated he was in agreement with Mr. Jenkins. He
noted the following points which he felt were favorable to the
request:
--The church has existed at this site for many years;
--The applicant will make parents well aware of safety
considerations;
--Parents with children in their cars are likely to take all
safety precautions necessary;
--"It's not a perfect world and we all have to take some
risks."
Commissioners Huckle, Andersen and Grimm indicated they were in
favor of a deferral. (NOTE: Mr. Grimm changed his position
later after further discussion.)
Ms. Huckle reiterated a point made earlier by Mr. Keeler, i.e.
that it is not those involved with the school who will cause the
accidents, rather it is those persons who will be coming around
the curve too fast to stop when someone is exiting from the
church onto the road.
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Mr. Johnson was in favor of the matter proceeding with the
addition of a third and fourth condition:
(3) Hours of operation limited to 9:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.
(4) Prohibition of access to Rt. 663 during school hours.
Though Mr. Johnson suggested a fifth condition ("VDOT be
requested to provide appropriate information traffic signs and
review local speed limits."), Mr. Keeler informed him that that
was not an appropriate condition, but rather could be a separate
action. He explained that the applicant would have no way of
achieving such a condition. Mr. Keeler stated that staff would
contact VDOT regarding the signage issue.
Mr. Blue stated he would be able to support the request with the
conditions added by Mr. Johnson. He explained that he felt the
Rt. 664 exit was "much, much safer."
Ms. Andersen asked if there was a question of legal liability in
the event of an accident. Mr. Bowling responded: "You don't
have any personal liability."
Mr. Blue stated he was not concerned about personal liability.
He added: "One thing I've tried to be consistent on is public
safety and while I have all the sympathy in the world for this
group --and I'd like to see it continue and I hope it can --I'm not
going to vote knowingly for something that is unsafe according to
the VDOT experts...." However, Mr. Blue indicated that he could
support a motion for approval with a condition requiring that the
663 exit be closed, at least during school hours.
Mr. Johnson hoped that VDOT comments could be obtained before the
September 15 Board hearing. Mr. Keeler stated staff would "do
its best."
MOTION: Mr. Johnson moved, seconded by Mr. Nitchmann, that SP-
93-24 for Demmie Main (applicant), Chestnut Grove Baptist Church
(owner) be recommended to the Board of Supervisors for approval
subject to the following conditions:
1. Compliance with Section 5.1.6 of the Zoning Ordinance:
a. No such use shall operate without required licenses. It
shall be the responsibility of the owner/operaator to transmit to
the Zoning Administrator a copy of any required licenses (or
proof of exemption from licensure) and all renewals thereafter
and to notify the Zoning Administrator of any license expiration,
suspension, or revocation within three (3) days of such event.
Failure to do so shall be deemed willful noncompliance with the
provisions of this ordinance;
b. Periodic inspection of the premises shall be made by the
Albemarle County Fire Official at his discretion. Failure to
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promptly admit the Fire Official for such inspection shall be
deemed willful noncompliance with the provisions of this
ordinance;
C. These provisiions are supplementary and nothing stated herein
shall be deemed to preclude application of the requirements of
the Virginia Department of Health, Virginia State Fire Marshall,
or any other local, state or federal agency.
2. Maximum enrollment shall not exceed twenty (20) students or
such lesser number as may be approved by the Health Department.
3. Hours of operation limited to 9:00 a.m. to 12:30 p.m.
4. Prohibition of access to Rt. 663 during school hours.
Discussion:
Ms. Andersen stated she would not vote for the motion because she
preferred that the matter be pursued further with VDOT before
taking action. She concluded: "My leanings are that public
safety is very important."
Mr. Grimm stated he would support the motion because he felt
"VDOT was tied into this thing."
Ms. Huckle expressed a preference for a deferral to September 21.
She expressed the understanding that if the request is approved
by the Commission and the Board, there will then be "nothing that
VDOT can do."
Mr. Jenkins stated: "I would sure hope that they could. There
are things about looking at the speed limit --whether it's proper-
-to identify a school zone and things like that --hopefully
they'll do that regardless of our action based on the request
from Ron. The school people have already contacted VDOT. They
ought to do it based on what the school people have done."
Mr. Keeler confirmed that staff would not drop the matter with
VDOT even if the motion is passed.
Mr. Johnson described a personal experience with VDOT where he
had requested safety signs for a road and his request had been
honored.
The motion for approval passed (5:2) with Commissioners Huckle
and Andersen casting the dissenting vote.
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MISCELLANEOUS
Mr. Grimm informed the Commission that the next joint
meeting with the City Planning Commission was tentatively
scheduled for October 7. No opposition was expressed to
this date.
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There was a discussion of the upcoming worksession on the
Meadowcreek Parkway (September 14). Mr. Grimm suggested
that public comment not be invited at this worksession, but
rather delayed until the public hearing. Mr. Blue and Mr.
Johnson were not in favor of this suggestion though they
expressed no opposition to the worksession not being
advertised as a public hearing. They also expressed no
opposition to the Chairman establishing some rules and
limiting the time for public comment. Both Mr. Nitchmann and
Ms. Huckle indicated their support for Mr. Grimm's
suggestion. Mr. Nitchmann felt it would be difficult to
limit the comment if the meeting is opened up to the public.
Ms. Huckle felt it was difficult for the Commission to have
a productive worksession when constantly being interrupted.
Mr. Blue concluded: "I would just as soon leave it as it is
and if the Chairman feels it is appropriate to do, I just
wouldn't want to pass a hard and fast rule saying that the
Chairman can't do this." Mr. Grimm expressed the belief
that the comments which might be offered at a worksession
would be repeated at the public hearing. Mr. Keeler
suggested the possibility of limiting public comment to a
certain amount of time at the end of the Commission's
discussion.
Mr. Keeler reported that a "wholesale revision" of the
Subdivision Ordinance has been completed. Copies of the
draft have been distributed to the Site Review Committee and
to various citizen and development groups with a request for
their comments. It is anticipated that it will be ready to
distribute to the Commission on September 28, with a
worksession tentatively set for October 12. He explained
the three major changes to the Ordinance:
--The unification of the language with the Site Plan
Ordinance;
--The codification of the administrative approval
process so that subdivisions would only come before the
Commission if they are appealed by adjoining property owners
or if a Commissioner wants to review the subdivision (just
as site plans are currently being handled);
--Extension of the validity of plats from the time of
approval of the preliminary plat until the recordation of
the final plat from 2 1/2 years to 3 years, including the
adjustment of 3 deadlines within that timeframe.
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Ms. Huckle expressed concern about some problems she had
recently viewed at a subdivision. She noted that currently
there are no provisions in the subdivision ordinance to
address problems with driveways on very steep property.
(Mr. Keeler stated he hoped Engineering was considering that
problem because he had pointed it out to them some time
ago.)
Mr. Johnson again brought up the question of why VDOT will
not approve mountainous terrain standards in this county.
He noted that Mr. Cilimberg had asked for VDOT comments on
this question several months ago.
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Mr. Nitchmann asked staff to check on a "dumping site" on a
gravel road which runs behind the reservoir off Rt. 29 (Rt.
643) .
Mr. Johnson expressed concerns about the Daily Progress'
policy on running Commission agendas. Apparently they have
stopped running block ads but have agreed to run some type
of notice if they receive information by 10:00 a.m. on
Friday morning. Mr. Nitchmann felt it was outrageous that
the Daily Progress could not perform this simple public
service for the people who provide its revenue.
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There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at
8:45 p.m.
DB