HomeMy WebLinkAbout10 05 1993 PC Minutes10-5-93
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OCTOBER 5, 1993
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public
hearing on Tuesday, October 5, 1993, Meeting Room 7, County
Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members
present were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Walter Johnson,
Vice Chairman; Mr. William Nitchmann; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Mr.
Tom Blue; Ms. Ellen Andersen; and Ms. Babs Huckle. Other
officials present were: Mr. Wayne Cilimberg, Director of
Planning and Community Development; Mr. David Benish, Chief
of Community Development; Ms. Mary Joy Scala, Senior
Planner; and Ms. Jo Higgins, County Engineer. Absent:
County Attorney.
The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and
established that a quorum was present. The minutes of
September 21 were approved as submitted. (NOTE: An error
in the date on the September 14 Work Session minutes was
noted.)
ZMA-9 -08 Feldmann's Inc. (applicant), Mark & L nnle
Thornton (owner) - The applicant petitions the Board of
Supervisors to rezone approximately 1.9 acres from R-6,
Residential to HC, Highway Commercial. Property, described
as Tax Map 45, Parcel 95 is located on the east side of Rt.
659 (SPCA Road) approximately 500 feet north of Rio Road in
the Charlottesville Magisterial District. This site is
located in a designated growth area (Urban Neighborhood 1)
and is on the boundary of areas recommended for medium
density residential (4.01 - 10 dwelling units per acre) and
high density residential (10.01 - 34 dwelling units per
acre. Deferred from the September 28, 1993 Commission
meeting.
The applicant was again requesting deferral to October 26,
1993.
Mr. Jenkins moved, seconded by Ms. Andersen, that ZMA-93-08
be deferred to October 26, 1993. The motion passed
unanimously.
Eastham Agricultural/Forestal District which consists of
eight parcels totalling 764.750 acres, located on the east
and west sides of Rt. 20 North at Rt. 612. Deferred from
the September 21, 1993 Commission meeting.
Ms. Scala presented an amended staff report which identified
and corrected errors contained in the original staff report.
She added that both the Planning and Zoning staffs agree
that the existing violation on the Bigelow property must be
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corrected before action is taken on that portion of the
district. She asked that the Commission take action on the
remainder of the district (Worthington and Shaw -Kennedy
properties) and postpone action on the Bigelow property
"until such time as he has corrected his violation."
Ms. Scala also noted that two additional applications had
been received after the staff report --Cecil Gentry, 7.35
acres with one dwelling and Archibald Craig, 112 acres.
It was her suggestion that Mr. Gentry's property be included
in the action since he was present to answer questions. She
stated the Commission might wish to delay action on the
Craig property until staff has researched it more
thoroughly.
Mr. Blue asked why staff had not been aware of the rental
properties on the Bigelow property at the time the district
was formed. He commented: "The thing that bothers me about
this whole issue of agricultural/forestal districts is that
the people that join them are supposed to want to be
protecting the environment and protecting agricultural
interests and not want any more development. But they can't
have it both ways. I just wonder if the Committee had known
of the existence of the 7 rental units then, whether they
would have accepted it."
Ms. Scala explained that it is not uncommon for many farms
to have "farm buildings/rental units." [Mr. Nitchmann noted
that 8 rental units for farm hands for 178 acres is "a
little ridiculous."]
Mr. Blue felt all applicants for ag/forestal districts
should be made aware that "building guest cottages and
converting them to rental units is in conflict with the
original intention of the AF District, or else I have
misinterpreted it." Ms. Scala explained that the properties
which have existing "non -conforming rental units" at the
time of application, are allowed to continue, but any units
added after the approval of the district would have to
comply with the rules. A limitation on the number of
allowable units has never been discussed.
Explaining options available to Mr. Bigelow, Ms. Scala noted
that the subdivision of 21-acre parcels is not prohibited
within an AF district and this is another option for dealing
with the violation. (The new dwelling would have to be on a
separate parcel.)
Mr. Cilimberg suggested that the issue of whether or not
pre-existing rental units should be a factor in the
consideration of a parcel's inclusion in an AF District
should be addressed by the Ag/Forestal Advisory Committee.
He noted that subdivision lots (i.e. those lots which are
within a developed, residential subdivision) have always
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been viewed as being inconsistent with AF Districts. (NOTE:
Later in the meeting Mr. Blue pointed out that "technically,
any division of land is a subdivision" so there ought to be
some other definition rather than not being in a
subdivision."]
Mr. Blue felt there were a number of persons who would like
to have the benefits of an AF District without being willing
to accept the "responsibilities" which go along with it.
Mr. Cilimberg felt it would have to be considered on a
case -by -case basis since there are some major farm
operations which have a number of employees residing on the
property.
Ms. Scala stated it was her intent to add a section to the
application form which will require listing the number of
existing dwelling units. Ms. Huckle suggested that
applicants be required to sign an affadavit attesting to the
accuracy of the application form.
Mr. Nitchmann pointed out that the rental income produced by
eight dwelling units would probably exceed the income from
the farming operation, "so why should it be in the
Ag/Forestal District in that case?"
Mr. Blue felt one of the main advantages to the AF District
is the lower tax rate. He noted there has been a lot of
recent discussion about cutting back on land use taxation in
all but AF Districts. Those persons (who are eligible for
land use) would then be getting a benefit that others do
not, and "then it would be even more important to be sure
that they were using that responsibly, i.e. it is not just a
method of avoiding taxes but they are really a bona fide
agricultural enterprise."
Ms. Huckle suggested assessing a fine from persons who don't
comply with the rules of the District. (Ms. Scala explained
that is already provided for in the Zoning Ordinance.)
Mr. Johnson pointed out that the County has no system for
accurately identifying the number of rental units that exist
anywhere in the County. He felt there was a way this could
be done using the 1040 tax forms.
Regarding the Craig application, Ms. Huckle expressed no
concern about including it in the Commission's action.
The Chairman invited public comment.
Mr. Cecil Gentry addressed the Commission. He asked that
the other participants in the District not by penalized
because there is a problem with one member.
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There being no further public comment, the matter was placed
before the Commission.
In response to Ms. Andersen's question, Ms. Scala confirmed
that any parcels which are added after the approval date
will be subject to the same time period as the rest of the
District.
Ms. Scala also noted that the present request was for 10
years, as opposed to 8 years which was the duration of the
previous approval.
MOTION: Mr. Blue moved, seconded by Ms. Huckle, that the
Eastham Agricultural/Forestal District be approved as
presented by staff, to include the following properties,
Worthington, Shaw -Kennedy, Craig and Gentry, but excluding
the Bigelow property.
The motion passed unanimously.
In response to Mr. Nitchmann's question, Ms. Scala confirmed
she would bring the issue of number of allowable rental
units before the Advisory Committee.
CONSENT AGENDA
Pasture Fence Mountain Ag/Forestal District - Consisting of
three parcels totalling 623.04 acres, located on Pasture
Fence Mountain west of Mount Fair off Rt. 756.
North Fork Moorman's River A Forestal District - Consisting
of four parcels totalling 260.48 acres, located west of
Brown's Cove.
Addition III to Sugar Hollow A Forestal District -
Consisting of 55.79 acres being added to two parcels already
in the district, located on the west side of Rt. 810 near
Rt. 811.
Addition III to Kinloch A Forestal District - Consisting of
one parcel of 3.811 acres, located on the east side of Rt.
231 near Cismont.
The Commission was being asked to refer the applications to
the Advisory'Committee.
MOTION: Ms. Huckle moved, seconded by Mr. Jenkins, that the
Consent Agenda be approved as presented. The motion passed
unanimously.
ZMA-93-05 Victoria Burton - Petition to rezone 18.5 acres
from RA, Rural Areas to R-4, Residential (proffered).
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10-5-93 5
Property, described as Tax Map 32C, Section 3, Parcel 2 is
located south of and adjacent to the existing Deerwood
Subdivision. This site is located in the Rivanna
Magisterial District and is in a designated growth area
(Community of Hollymead) and is recommended for Industrial
Service. REFERRED BACK TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION BY THE
BOARD OF SUPERVISORS TO CONSIDER NEW INFORMATION.
Staff reported the applicant had withdrawn the application.
No action was required.
CIP -P BLIC HEARING
Mr. Baker introduced the topic. He explained changes in the
priority list and attached comments which were the result of
the Commission's work sessions.
Mr. Baker distributed a copy of a letter from Mr. Bruce
MacCall related to the WAHS - Henley Middle School
Underground Crossing.
Comments, both by the public and the Commission, on specific
items were as follows:
ADA Mandated Projects (6 projects ranked at Priority 1 -
Total $1,283,055):
JOHNSON: Referring to Comment No. 3, he suggested that the
Commission recommend that these projects be funded at
$450,000/year over a four-year period. The Commission
agreed with this suggestion -and it was agreed Comment No. 3
would be amended accordingly. Mr. Johnson suggested the
addition of a column showing the amount actually requested,
along with a column showing the recommended funding for this
year. (He suggested that the sub -total under "Amount
Requested" show $450,000, with the grand total for the
4-year period being shown in some other fashion.)
HUCKLE: She felt that parks and recreation projects should
not be of "equal priority" with school projects. She noted
that "children are required to go schools; no one is forced
to go to a park." She felt schools should be prioritized
above schools. She pointed out that the cost of the ADA
Schools Compliance is $573,000. She wondered if that should
be done in one year with the remaining projects spread out.
JENKINS: He felt the scheduling of the projects should be
left to the ADA Committee.
BLUE: He agreed with Ms. Huckle, but noted that all the ADA
projects are of equal priority (1).
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It was noted that the Commission was leaving the decision of
which projects should be completed first to the ADA
Committee.
BLUE: He expressed concern about voting for something which
is "essentially breaking the law," i.e. not doing the ADA
projects in the time required. (Mr. Nitchmann felt the date
deadlines were not "hard, fast rules" as long as there is
intent to proceed as rapidly as possibly. Mr. Benish
explained that spreading the projects out over a four year
period means that "we won't become illegal until the end of
the four year period.") Mr. Blue accepted Mr. Benish's
rationalization.
Comment No. 14
JOHNSON: He suggested that the topic of road projects be
included in this comment.
Comment No. 5
HUCKLE: She felt "borrowed funds" should not be used on
maintenance and repair items. (Mr. Johnson suggested that a
sentence be amended as follows: "Maintenance and repair
should not be in competition with
new construction.")
Mr. Blue and Mr. Nitchmann recalled that it had been the
consensus of the Commission that maintenance and repair
projects did not belong in the CIP at all.
Berkmar Drive North Ext. and Waterline (Priority 21) and Zan
Road Extension (Priority 34)
DON WAGNER (public, representing the North Charlottesville
Business Council): He felt the completion of these items
would alleviate traffic problems on Rt. 29, particularly
during the Rt. 29 improvements period. He encouraged the
Commission to place the items as high on the priority list
as possible.
JOHN NUNNELLY (Rt. 29 business owner): He encouraged a high
priority for the Berkmar Drive North Extension because not
only will it improve traffic flow in Rt. 29, it will also
reduce the chance of accidents.
Ms. Higgins explained, in detail, the history, the status
of, and the funding process for, these projects. She felt
that the Zan Road project would be of "limited benefit".
She noted that it was 95% within the City and that the
project was concurrently before the City.
JENKINS: He suggested the Zan Road project be placed at the
bottom of the list. Based on his understanding of Mr.
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Wagner's comments, he noted: "When you get it built it
doesn't go anywhere." (Ms. Huckle agreed.)
BLUE: He felt the Zan Road project had some merit if there
was a possibility it would connect to Hydraulic Road. (Ms.
Higgins pointed out that this project was "just to connect
the shopping center with the cul-de-sac at Hillsdale Drive."
Mr. Benish and Ms. Higgins felt there was little chance of a
connection to Hydraulic because of the significant
environmental impact to Meadow Creek.) Based on the fact
that the project did not include a connection to Hydraulic,
Mr. Blue agreed with Mr. Jenkins that it should be a very
low priority.
GRIMM: He felt Zan Road might offer an alternative route
(other than Rt. 29) for residents of the Carrsbrook,
Woodbrook, and surrounding neighborhoods.
Avon Street/Route 20 Connector Road (Priority No. 18)
HIGGINS: She explained that she felt this project should be
a lower priority than the Berkmar Dr/Waterline project (No.
21) since there is much more pressure to complete the
Berkmar Drive project and it is possible to complete it this
year, whereas the Avon/Rt. 20 project could not possibly be
completed this year, even if completely funded.
The Commission agreed to reverse the ranking of these two
items.
Old Brook Asphalt Path -'Engineering (Priority 38
PAM STARLING (public, President of Field Brook Homeowner's
Association): She asked that the construction of this
project be moved up to 1994 and be given a higher priority.
She felt this was a community safety issue since this path
is used daily by children and senior citizens.
(Mr. Baker explained this project had been given a low
priority by staff because of low traffic counts, exclusion
from the Pedestrian Obstacle Study and the roadway is wide
with a walkable grass shoulder. Ms. Starling pointed out
that the section of most concern is not walkable --between
Rio Road and Greentree.)
NITCHMANN: He suggested.this was a good opportunity for a
community to do some fundraising on their own. (Ms.
Starling felt the homeowner's association would be willing
to do some fundraising, but asked that the County assist by
facilitating the land acquisition.. She noted the property
needed is not owned by community residents.)
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B o sville Expansion a o' t - schedule for "out
years"
DAVE VAN HOLT (Crozet Community Association): He strongly
objected to the fact that an expansion of Brownsville (12
additional classrooms) would call for a redistricting of
Crozet Elementary School to fill those additional
classrooms.
(Mr. Blue called attention to Comment No. 2 which explains
the Commission's decision not to rank school -related
projects. He suggested that Mr. Van Holt's comments would
be more appropriately addressed to the School Board. He
stated that the Commission cannot satisfy the problems of
re -districting.)
TOM LOACH (President, Crozet Community Association): He
supported Mr. Van Holt's comments. He suggested that the
boundaries of Crozet need to be clearly defined.
TOM TREVILIANS (Crozet resident): He supported Mr. Van
Holt's Comments. He felt the psychological effect of
redistricting on children should be a consideration. He
suggested the old Crozet School building be renovated to
handle increased enrollement.
(Mr. Nitchmann suggested that the Crozet citizens should
make their concerns known to the Board of Supervisors and
should also be prepared to make suggestions as to possible
solutions.)
Chris Green Lake Property Purchases Priorities 12 and 13
GRIMM: He suggested that a comment be added explaining why
these projects are given this high priority, (using Mr.
Mulaney's letter as a basis for justification).
BLUE: He recalled that comments had been requested from the
RWSA and the ACSA as to whether or not they feel these
properties are necessary for the protection of the water
supply. He noted that the request is not coming from the
water supply use, but rather from the recreational use.
JOHNSON: He recalled that the reason for placing the
projects.at this priority was to "bring it to the attention
of the Board who then would be able to get these inputs and
decide." He noted that if this is a limited opportunity to
purchase this land, the appropriate authorities should
review it and make a recommendation to the Board.
BLUE: "Unless there is a demonstrated need beyond what Mr.
Mulaney's memo has shown, I don't think it ought to be a
high priority...."
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HUCKLE: She agreed with Mr. Blue. She also noted that if
it is a water supply protection project, it is the
responsibility of the ACSA and not the County Capital
Improvements Program.
[Mr. Benish suggested that the items be removed from this
high priority (possibly placed at the bottom of the list)
with a note attached to bring them to the attention of the
Board. The Commission agreed.]
WAHS-HenleyMiddle School Underground Crossing
(The Commission discussed a letter received from Mr. Bruce
MacCall, Chair of the WAHS PTO Committee to recommend a
course of action for the safe crossing of students between
the two schools.)
ANDERSEN: She reminded the Commission that a student had
been struck by an automobile last year while crossing
between the two schools.
Various ways of addressing this problem were discussed, e.g.
an overhead crossing, crossing guards, school buses, and a
stop light.
BLUE: "In my opinion, if it's something that the schools
have to have --they have to have these crossings of kids like
this --then it's got to be safe and we've got to spend the
money, whatever it is." He indicated he understood the
problems with an overhead crossing (ARB review, ADA
requirements, etc.), but he felt the "liability would be
just as risky underground as aboveground." He felt the
$120,000 figure was "optimistic."
NITCHMANN: In response to Mr. Grimm's question as to
whether or not it should be moved into the list of ranked
priorities, Mr. Nitchmann stated he did not think it should
be included in the ranked priorities, but rather a Note No.
15 should be added telling the Board that the Commission has
discussed the item and feels it should be given top priority
during their consideration of school funding issues. (The
Commission agreed with this recommendation.)•
Ricky Road Drainage(Priority No. 9
Ms. Higgins answered questions about the urgency of this
project. She explained it has been on the CIP list for many
years. She was not aware of any damage that has occurred as
a result of.this project not being done.
HUCKLE: "Maybe if nobody has suffered from it, maybe it's
too high on the priority list." (No support for Ms.
Huckle's suggestion to change this ranking was expressed.)
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10-5-93
GENERAL COMMENTS:
Funding
NITCHMANN: He was in favor of a comment expressing the
Commission's recommendation that funding should be based on
"real money and not fictitious money that doesn't exist."
He explained: "We should start out with money that's really
there, not borrowed money, not money that we're putting in
there in case we get a Meadow Creek Parkway, but real money
that comes from the general funds available for CIP
improvements."
BLUE: He suggested Note No. 14 could be amended to address
Mr. Nitchmann's concern.
BAKER: To address Mr. Nitchmann's concerns, he suggested a
note to the effect "that consideration be given to spreading
out the costs for all projects so we can get further down
the list." (Mr. Nitchmann was in favor of this
recommendation.)
Process
NITCHMANN: "I think we have come a long way in the approach
we are taking to the CIP process over the last two years and
I would hope that in the next evolution of this process,
after we can get together with the Board and the County
Executive's Office, we can refine amounts requested and how
much involvement we as a Planning Commission should have in
recommending how much should be funded for each one of these
projects. Certainly, I think the costs of the projects has
some impact, at least mentally, on where you can rank
something. ..." He again expressed the belief that the
funding of education projects should be part of the school
budget so that County citizens will have a better
understanding of the full cost of education. He also
expressed concern about transportation issues because most
projects are funded with borrowed money.
GRIMM: "I believe what we're looking at is a desire to have
a little more communication with the Board in the early
stages of working with the CIP to determine approximately
how much money we are going to be dealing with and how that
could be best utilized."
It was agreed Note No. 14 would be amended to add Mr.
Nitchmann's concerns about the funding process and about
transportation projects.
It was agreed that the fourth sentence of Note No. 5 would
be amended as follows: "Maintenance and repair should not
be in competition with new Projects."
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10-5-93
SUMMARY:
Mr. Baker summarized the Commission's recommendations as
follows:
--Note No. 3: Recommend spreading the cost over a
four-year period, expending approximately $450,000/year.
--Replace "borrowed funds" with "new projects."
--Note No. 14: Add road projects and a recommendation
to establish a method for using real money vs. borrowed
money. (Mr. Blue felt there was a better term to use than
"borrowed money" since borrowed money is real money.) Mr.
Benish offered the following wording: "Discuss changes in
the CIP process, particularly as regards methods for
identifying available funds for CIP projects, school
projects, transportation projects, etc."
--Add a Note recommending that funding should be spread
out so that more projects can be funded.
--Special consideration should be given to the
underground passageway between WAHS and Henley.
--Add a Note recommending that the Commission's highest
priority is for the first 19 projects and that the
Commission strongly urges that the funds be allocated such
that they receive funding in this fiscal year. (He felt
this would specify to the Board which items the Commission
feels deserve funding, without actually specifying dollar
amounts for these projects.)
--Priorities 12 and 13 to be moved to the bottom of
list.
--Move Avon/Rt. 20 project to priority 21; move
Berkmar/Waterline project to priority 18.
MOTION: Mr. Blue moved, seconded by Mr. Johnson, that the
Capital Improvements Program for 94-95 through 98-99 be
recommended to the Board of Supervisors as presented by
Staff with the following changes:.
--Note No. 3: Recommend spreading the cost over a
four-year period, expending approximately $450,o00/year.
--Replace "borrowed funds" with "new projects."
--Note No. 14: Add road projects and a recommendation
to establish a method for using real money vs. borrowed
money. "Discuss changes in the CIP process, particularly
as regards methods for identifying available funds for CIP
projects, school projects, transportation projects, etc."
--Add a Note recommending that funding should be spread
out so that more projects can be funded.
--Special consideration should be given to the
underground passageway between WAHS and Henley.
--Add a Note recommending that the Commission's highest
priority is for the first 19 projects and that the
Commission strongly urges that the funds be allocated such
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that they receive funding in this fiscal year.
--Priorities 12 and 13 to be moved to the bottom of
list.
--Move Avon/Rt. 20 project to priority 21; move
Berkmar/waterline project to priority 18.
The motion passed unanimously.
CPA-93-04 Community Facilities Plan - Solid Waste Management
Section - Proposal to amend the Albemarle County Community
Facilities Plan to include the Solid Waste Management
Section. The purpose of this section is to serve as a guide
for solid waste management activities in the County.
Commission comments:
Referring to the section entitled "Landfills" beginning on
page 4, Mr. Johnson suggested that the use of the word
"shall" be changed and the criteria reworded so as "just to
identify the consideration." He felt the use of the word
"shall" allows no "latitude or option." He clarified that
the proposed wording reads as though the criteria are
mandates rather than considerations.
Referring to page 10 and the siting of incineration plants,
Mr. Johnson questioned whether a limitation of "no closer
than 500 feet from any existing or planned residence" was a
far enough distance. (Mr. Blue suspected that the figure
had been taken from State Code. He also thought it was
probably possible to build an incinerator within 500 feet
which would have no physical impact, though it may have a
psychological impact, on residents. )
The possibility of increasing the distance to 2,500 feet or
5,000 was suggested. Some Commissioners felt it would be
impossible to locate any site in the County which would
qualify. Mr. Johnson suggested language to the effect that
"consideration will be given to the location...."
Commissioners Blue and Grimm expressed the opinion that the
500 feet should remain. Mr. Grimm pointed out that the
wording says "no closer than 500 feet," so the 500 feet is
the "bottom end" and it would probably be greater than that.
There was no consensus to change the figure.
Referring to "Inert Landfill", page 10, Mr. Johnson pointed
out a grammatical error in a sentence. It was agreed it
should read: '"The State requires that contaminated inert
waste XA be dumped at the domestic landfill."
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Referring to the last sentence of the first paragraph on
page 1, Mr. Blue suggested the addition of the words "for
the County" at the end of the sentence.
Mr. Blue pointed out that two recommendations --(I) that
landfills should not be located in an Albemarle County
Watershed area, and (2) that the life of the Ivy Landfill
should be extended --are a "strong contradiction" to each
other since the Ivy Landfill may be contaminating an
Albemarle County water supply. He stated: "If we really
believe it is that dangerous, we ought to close up the Ivy
Landfill and move it somewhere else. He continued: "I'm
not convinced that there should never be a landfill in a
water supply area; I think it depends on the circumstances.
There is no way I an going to convince the members of this
Commission that we should take that statement out, but I
think we should think about it a little bit. We're saying
contradictory things."
Mr. Baker explained that the document attempts to establish
criteria by which property will be rated, and if a piece of
land is in a water supply watershed, it will be scored lower
than those outside watersheds. Mr. Benish added that, based
on the criteria, property within a watershed area would be
considered only after every other possibility has been
explored. He felt the emphasis was clear, i.e. "to look
elsewhere first." To address concerns that this might not
be totally clear, Mr. Benish offered to add additional
language to the effect that because of economical
considerations, we are encouraging the continued use of the
existing landfill, but recognizing that it is inconsistent
with existing policies.
Mr. Blue felt the way it is written says that property
within water supply watersheds will not even be considered.
Mr. Johnson felt it was just a matter of wording. It was
suggested the wording "Consideration of the location within a
watershed should be given a high priority" was preferable.
Mr. Blue concluded: "I still see the dichotomy -- we
make a real concerted effort to try and extend the use of
the Ivy Landfill, which I think is right, but then we ought
to understand what we are doing."
Mr. Jenkins noted: "The only reason I have any reservation
about it is that somewhere else in the County --if, in fact,
the potential exists for contaminating water supply, whose
water are we contaminating now, if not ours? We have just
as much responsibility to our neighbors as to ourselves. We
listen to these 'not in my backyard' people everyday and
then we turn around an put it in our own document. I have a
problem with that."
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10-5-93
There was determined to be no public comment.
It was agreed that all the "shall bets" would be changed.
MOTION: Mr. Johnson moved, seconded by Ms. Andersen, that
CPA 93-04, the Solid Waste Management Section of the
Community Facilities Plan, be recommended to the Board of
Supervisors for approval as presented by staff with those
changes noted above.
The motion passed unanimously.
MISCELLANEOUS
Albemarle County Fair (reviewed by the Commission
previously) Mr. Johnson recalled that the applicant had made
a statement that "we will surface treat the roads." Mr.
Johnson had contacted Mr. Roosevelt (VDOT) to asked "if,
irrespective of County approval a party can go ahead and
start repaving his roads." Mr. Roosevelt had replied
"absolutely not," explaining that an applicant would have to
"get our permission, and if we give our permission, it will
be to State standards." Mr. Roosevelt had also stated that
it was his understanding that additional right-of-way would
be required in order to bring it to State standards. Mr.
Johnson stated this issue had been ignored in the
Commission's review. He felt that the expense involved in
meeting State standards would have caused the the withdrawal
of the application.
AHIP Report_ - In response to Mr. Nitchmann's request, Mr.
Benish stated they had just submitted a status report to
their Board and he intended to request that that status
report be "redone" for the Commission.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at
10:20 p.m.
V. Wayne/Cilimbepqfecretary
DB
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:15) 1
OCTOBER 5, 1993 - WORK SESSION
The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a Work Session
on Tuesday, October 5, 1993, Meeting Room 7, County Office
Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present
were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Walter Johnson, Vice
Chairman; Mr. William Nitchmann; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Mr. Tom
Blue; Ms. Ellen Andersen; and Ms. Babs Huckle. Other
officials present were: Mr. Wayne Cilimberg, Director of
Planning and Community Development and Mr. David Benish,
Chief of Community Development.
The Work Session began at 5:15 p.m.
Growth Area ExRansion Stud
The question before the Commssion was that of growth area
expansion. Staff explained that the Board was requesting
that the Commission "look at the big picture of all the
possibilities and to advise them, accordingly," on two
specific CPA's which the Commission has already acted upon:
CPA-92-05 for Towers Land Trust and CPA-92-02 for South
Fork Land Trust. (The Commission had previously recommended
approval of Towers and denial of South Fork.) In addition,
the Board "would like (the Commission) to look at the whole
report in full and comprehensively come back with a
recommendation."
Mr. Benish presented the staff report.
Commission comments:
JOHNSON: "Growth in some form is necessary, but I submit
that growth management can be to establish an environment
which supports development by the private sector and does
not necessarily mean that you have to designate a specific
area by dictate. Historically, we have not experienced
overwhelming success in the development of our growth areas.
The success has been as a result of a very few major
developers. I'm suggesting that this should be a
consideration, not just by this Commission, but that this is
a major subject to be taken up with the Board in what we
identified previously as a philosophical review of the
objectives of the Comprehensive Plan. I would like to see
the Commission go on record again as requesting such a
meeting with the Board as soon as possible because these are
coming up time and time again. I'll mention an example of
what I'm referring to as to whether or not this designation
of growth area vs. another method of setting up an
environment within which the private sector can operate and
choose their own growth area. No. 1 - We're not going to
put infrastracture in any growth area; if it's there now,
h^ 2
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:.15) 2
fine, but we can't afford to do it. .. No. 2 - Actual
experience in one of the developmentshere is that area was
purchased by the developer at $3,500/acre. The developer
took a risk but with tentative, verbal support of the Board.
He then made the application for the appropriate zoning.
The developer was then, ultimately, able to sell the
property for $250,000 to $350,000/acre and with the (profit)
he was able to put in the necessary infrastructure. I think
this is an example that needs to be seriously considered by
both the Board and the Commission together as to how we want
to approach this growth area, because once we go ahead and
designate it, the price goes from $3,500/acre to $20,000,
$30,000/acre."
JOHNSON: Referring to a recent change in the Code in
relation to affordable housing: "If we set up an
environment in which the private sector can appropriately,
efficiently and economically operate, then prior to
designating a growth area, developers can come forth with
preliminary site plans which can be reviewed and within
those preliminary site plans, I believe we do have the
authority to address a percentage, or location or
availability of affordable housing. Affordable housing is
defined as that which does not cost more than 30% of annual
income."
JOHNSON: "If what I've stated seems like it might have some
substance, then with respect to the two applications before
us, I think we have a prime example where the developer has
decided it is economically feasible for him to operate
there. He has taken the lead and it's not just going out
and designating area on the 'if come."' If the Board can,
prior to taking the final action for rezoning, get a
preliminary site plan, not binding but with his ideas and
what he intends to do, then that would give a much better
basis upon which to accomplish the rezoning. In the case of
the Towers, I would be in favor of that for reasons I have
just stated." Regarding the South Fork request, he felt it
could be postponed until the Board has made its decision on
the Meadow Creek Parkway or could be approved "pending
disapproval of the Meadow Creek Parkway by the Board." He
concluded: "I think both of these qualify ... for a developer
determining that it is economically feasible and desirable
for him to proceed now. The only thing I think would be
lacking is a preliminary site plan."
BLUE: He expressed disagreement with much of Mr. Johnson's
remarks. He felt the development referred to by Mr. Johnson
in his beginning remarks (Glenmore) had created a lot of
controversy because it was a "leap frog" from existing
utilities to a rural area relatively far out. He pointed out
that the developer bought the land and then "bribed the
County" by offering to pay for the extension of the
infrastructure. He felt it had created a lot of problems at
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:15) 3
that time, but it did seem to have turned out all right. He
felt it was the role of the Planning Department to prevent
that sort of situation. He did not agree that growth area
designation alone drives up the cost of land excessively.
He felt the County could do a better job of planning where
infrastructure can and should be extended. He also noted
that designation of growth areas offers some guarantee to
the public that if they choose to live outside growth areas
they can be reasonably sure they will not be in an urban
area. He felt the approach currently being followed was the
correct approach rather than letting the market define where
growth areas will be.
BLUE: ,It seems to me in good planning we ought to be
trying to expand out from our urban areas along the natural
routes of gravity sewer whenever possible. ... Why do we
keep pushing out 29, where, even if we go with this tonight
and I voted for it before (i.e. Towers Land Trust), we're
pushing over the drainage area. Everything there has got to
be pumped and we're either going to have to put in bigger
pumps or put in a long gravity sewer. Going south and
northeast of town the infrastructure is easily extended with
gravity sewer and fairly good roads and we have the other
advantage of not adding to the traffic burden on 29. ... We
ought to be, instead of just stripping up 29, thinking about
expanding out and keeping the urban area a little more
compact. It seems to me that might be good planning and
might be worthy of more consideration."
Mr. Johnson felt the differences in his and Mr. Blue's
approaches might be cause for an overall review with the
Board of "how we approach this thing." However, he did not
think the two pending applications should be delayed.
Mr. Johnson pointed out that the question of transportation
will have to be addressed if Towers and South Fork requests
are approved.
HUCKLE: "I an thoroughly in favor of having growth areas
and am happy to see that growth has been taking place in
growth areas. I think we really need to bite the bullet on
this transportation thing. We have seen what happens with
the Meadow Creek Parkway, where if development takes place
first, before the road, then people don't want the road. ...
We need some parallel roads. How can we make sure there
will be roads and we won't be back in the same predicament
of having opposition to roads which are needed." She
suggested waiting until "there are enough applicants to chip
in on this road and prove that there is a need for it rather
than going at this backwards."
GRIMM: He expressed agreement with Mr. Blue's comments
regarding the concept of a growth area. "As representatives
of County government we need to provide some leadership in
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:15)
4
determining where the growth areas should be in order to
provide eadfor That'seople who want to what planning is allnabout,and do the
development.
There were brief comments about the sewer service to the
northern part of the County and the lack of sufficient water
to run the water treatment plant. Because of the
possibility of pumping water from the river, Mr. Blue again
stated that he felt it was very important that the Board
make a firm decision as to whether or not Chris Green Lake
will ever be used as a reservoir. It was Mr. Blue's opinion
that it is highly unlikely that Chris Green Lake will ever
be used as a water supply "and all we have available is
what's in the river." Mr. Grimm agreed it was important
this decision be made. Ms. Huckle felt the use of Chris
Green Lake should not be "foreclosed" because it is "a very
important ace in the hole." Mr. Blue did not think it would
make much difference in the event of a severe drought
because if other sources are dry, Chris Green will be drying
up also.
JOHNSON: He suggested that before discussing the issue of
growth areas at length comments should be sought from
developers given the fact that they will be expected to help
finance the infrastructure. He asked the question: "How
are we going to accommodate growth if we can't (afford) the
infrastructure? (Mr. Grimm agreed costs would have to be
shared by the County and developers.)
JENKINS: He pointed out that the County has been going
through this same exercise for 20 years and "the rural areas
have been fussing about the tax rate to support this
growth."
HUCKLE: Referring to an area along Rt. 20, Ms. Huckle asked
if it wouldn't be "more logical" to develop that area since
it has access to water and sewer and is in close proximity
to Interstate 64. (Mr. Blue recalled that the Board of
Supervisors had declined to make that area a growth area
twenty years ago because of the belief that Rt. 20 "wasn't
designed for that kind of traffic." Mr. Benish confirmed
that the biggest constraints are road access. (Mr. Johnson
felt the constraints of Rt. 20 "were nothing when compared
to the roads in the northern area.")
NITCHMANN: "Before this growth thing goes forward, in some
future sessions, I think we certainly need to have some
discussion on the expansion of the growth area on 250 East.
Then you get the expansion of the urban ring situation which
continues to grow out from the center."
-:�74 to
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:15)
5
geg immendatiQRs_
It was agreed more work sessions would be needed to study
the growth area question. Mr. Johnson suggested that staff
develop a schedule for work sessions which could be sent to
the "appropriate authorities" so that they can offer their
input.
Action on CPA's
BLUE: "I would be relatively comfortable with recommending
what we had before with the exception thaat hate to ow Creek
Parkway is slightly different now ... I j
usetch
them out. On the other hand, even with the Towers, your
argument sounded good to me that we already are going to
have to do something togouroriginal could go ahead and support recommendation on
the Towers Land Trust without gettinga oravinvesointo a that
pickle, so to speak, that we end up approving
requires more utilities than we are able to provide. I
think we ought to do a lot more study. I agree we ought to
have some experts here on both transportation and utilities
to help us decide on the whole thing on the growth areas,
but I, frankly, don't know how I feel about what we should
do about the Towers now. I have already decided once and
voted in favortfit thatand I woulddmake melnk I changeave my mindnabout
anything tonight
that."
Mr. Johnson expressed interest in changing the action taken
on South Fork "since there has been some discussion of
Meadow Creek and see if we couldn't recommend approval
on
i
the assumption that the Meadow Creek Parkway Mr at area
will not be approved by the Board. (Mr. Grimm questioned
the ability to make that assumption.) Blue qu
licant since
how Mr. Johnson's suggestion would help the app
"he could still be hanging on for years
e while
we felt the are
fussing
about the Meadow Creek Parkway."
of the Meadow Creek Parkway should be finalized before
taking action on the South Fork request.
Mr. Nitchmann questioned the boundaries shown on the map.
Staff explained this was
furtherasstart"
and the Commission
could adjust them after
In relation to Towers, Mr. Nitchmann asked "if the experts
have fully covered the utiity aspect, consideration of
roads, future school needs, etc." Mr. Cilimberg confirmed
that none of those issues have been ignored.
MOTION: Mr. Nitchmann tmthedthat Board ofA-92-05for SupervisorsTforrs Land
Trust be recommended
o
� U1
6
10-5-93 (Work Session 5:15)
approval and that CPA-92for
ofSthehMeadowCFork reek Parkway
Trust be
deferred until the resolution
question. Mr. Johnson seconded the motion.
Discussion:
� estion, Mr. Cilimberg stated
In response to Mr. Johnson's applicant intended to present a
it was his understanding the apP Mr. Cilimberg
full site plan at the time of the rezoning.
interpreted it was the Commission's intent that either
or a planned development be offered.
proffered plan
felt that was iline with the applicant's plans. It is at
that time that the Board and e5omn►ransportationsion will aandtpublicsatisfy
their concerns about utilities,
services.
HLTCKLE: "Let the record show that I still feel this is
premature until the utlealsconsiderationMaster Plan lcompletely is given
en to the
finished and until some
transportation problem. I think we would be making another
irresponsible mistake to add more growth to the area which
it's unable to manage now.
Mr. Nitchmann stated he might feel that way too if not for
the fact that the property is already contiguous to a growth
area and is a naturaltoextension
to fightthat
downarea.
the road"Those
are
once
battles we are going
see site plans, ect.
„ wa we'll ever get adequate roads out
GRIMM: The only Y en an other
there is through development. It won't
road in a
way; it never does. We cannot pay
wilderness."
stated motion passed (5:2) with Commissioners
The previously votes.
Huckle and Jenkins casting the dissenting
Mr. C' limber 's Summa JL- aaiv.L,
R commendat'on o the oa d
sals within the context of the
"You looked at these 2 propotaken
overall Growth Area report and your
r �ervingnanyscommentsaon
on that knowledge, but Your question until after
the full growth area expansion is hearings. You want to
additional work sessions athepdesignation of growth areas as
address the philosophy roach, transportation adequacy,
opposed to some other aPP ortunity for utility expansion;
cost efficiency, and the opP
and you want to get input on transportation and utilities as
well as possible developer comments." (The Commission
confirmed this was accurate.)
The work session ended at 6:50 p.m.