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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10 19 1993 PC Minutes10-19-93 1 OCTOBER 19, 1993 The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing on Tuesday, October 19, 1993, Meeting Room 7, County Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present were: Mr. Phil Grimm, Chairman; Mr. Walter Johnson, Vice Chairman; Mr. William Nitchmann; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Mr. Tom Blue; Ms. Ellen Andersen; and Ms. Babs Huckle. Other officials present were: Mr. Wayne Cilimberg, Director of Planning and Community Development; and Mr. JuanDiego Wade, Transportation Planner. Absent: County Attorney. The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. and established that a quorum was present. The minutes of the October 5, 1993 (5:15 Work Session) were approved as amended. Meadow Creek Parkway (North „of Rio Road) Mr. Cilimberg briefly introduced the topic. Mr. Wade pointed out the consultant's recommended alignment of the parkway (V2, G1, T1, Y1, W1, and W2). He noted that staff is currently studying the impact of the new alignment for the western bypass (recently proposed by VDOT) on this alignment of the Meadow Creek Parkway. Public Comment: Ms. Lisa Glass, representing Piedmont Environmental Council: She read a prepared statement. (See Attachment A.) Her statement expressed support for the proposed route, particularly Y1. Her statement concluded: "This route should not be judged as a by-pass to aid through traffic, but as a new major collector route designed to serve local traffic. As such it will work best if it goes to, and from, places that people work and live, and that is just what this route does." Referring to the Y1 alignment, she recommended that steps be taken to "preserve options to protect the alignment for the two corridors so that if, in the future, those residential communities would support such a connector, the opportunity will be available." Though Ms. Glass had purposely omitted a sentence from her statement, Mr. Blue insisted on reading the sentence which was as follows: "Combined with the western by --pass, it will provide a direct link to the University of Virginia." Ms. Glass explained she had omitted the statement because she felt it "might be an overstatement" because of the uncertainty of the location of the alignment and the number of connectors. Ms. Glass answered various Commission questions about her statement as follows: --The study referred to in No. 3 is the CAT Study. --The project recommendation referred to in No. 3 refers to an "alignment within this corridor," but not this 417 10-19-93 2 particular alignment. She clarified that the recommendation of the CAT Study, VDOT staff, CTB, the City, UVA and the County which she referred to was for a "parallel road in the 29 area that does make a connection, that is close enough in that you can pick up the residential districts...." Mr. Johnson attempted to clarify whether the PEC's statement supported the alignment proposed by the consultant or generally "another route to the north, not necessarily this." Ms. Glass responded: "You asked me if I was referring to two direct routes from the other plans. No. As I said, we support the plan that's before you now. Basically I feel that, all of the following, this one certainly does what we are talking about it needs to do." Mr. Blue noted it was his understanding that VDOT has not supported this alignment, rather they have supported the CATS plan which did connect to Profitt. Mr. Nitchmann also noted that he was not aware of any written support for this particular alignment by any of the groups referred to in Ms. Glass' statement. Mr. Cilimberg explained that the 4-party agreement (City/County/WA/VDOT) "specifically identifies undertaking all the CATS projects, including the full Meadow Creek Parkway. It doesn't pin it down to an alignment; it simply supports the Meadow Creek Parkway and that would actually be a priority of all the CATS improvements before a western bypass would be built. In addition, the CATS does show a Meadow Creek Parkway alignment up to Rt. 29." She confirmed that PEC supports this alignment "over" other options discussed recently by the Commission, i.e. improvements to Profitt Road and making a connection further north and east. Mr. Johnson noted that the CAT Study had recommended "essentially, B1, going straight up and connecting with T4... with a maximum of two spurs to the west area into the Hollymead/Forest Lakes area." Mr. Cilimberg confirmed that it had also shown a connection to Profitt Road. Public comment continued. Ms. Cynthia Hash, representing the Forest Lakes homeowners: She presented a petition (signed by 94% of the Forest Lakes homeowners) which supported the "W's instead of the T's." [Mr. John MacDonald, President of Forest Lakes Homeowner's Association, later referred to this petition and stated that 567 residents had signed in opposition to the Ti connector. Only 6 residents had supported T1.] She asked the Commission to require that, in the future, the possible locations of future roads be shown on subdivision plats. Ms. Hash gave a visual presentation which compared the proposed alignment 0V/0 10-19-93 3 with various options. She recommended that studies be undertaken to establish an alignment that would follow the Southern Railway, "all the way to 649, possibly to 600, and which would encompass a larger geographical area." Referring to Ms. Hash's support for the W's, Mr. Johnson felt it was inconceivable to believe that Forest Lakes residents would use the W's to cross Rt. 29 and then connect to 29 later at a point farther south. Ms. Hash explained: "If the insistence is to connect us to Meadow Creek Parkway, then we would prefer it be by the W's because of the lesser impact. She agreed that if the alignment were to follow along the Southern Railroad and connect to 649, fewer Forest Lakes residents would use the W's. She felt the relation of the W's to a western bypass was a separate issue. Other Forest Lakes and Hollymead residents who expressed opposition to the consultant's alignment and a road over the dam were as follows: Mr. Eric Caplan; Mr. Jeff Anchor; John MacDonald (President of Forest Lakes Homeowner's Association); Mr. Michael Guild and Ms. Sue Stebbins. Comments included the following: --Forest Lakes already connects to Profitt, though it is not a "direct" connection. --Could "external" traffic be prohibited from using Worth Crossing and Profitt Road? (Mr. Blue did not think this would be an attractive route for persons coming from the North to connect to the Meadow Creek Parkway.) --If this alignment is built, can the Commission require that bike and pedestrian pathways be included? --Residents of Forest Lakes North are "overwhelmingly" against a road connecting the neighborhoods. They believe a connecting road will triple or quadruple traffic on their residential streets. --Can action be taken now to prevent the construction of TI from ever taking place? Ms. Lynn Reon, a resident of Dunlora Subdivision, expressed opposition to the B2 alignment (which runs through the Donlora entrance). In response to Mr. Blue's question, she confirmed that she would not object if the portion of the Parkway south of Dunlora (towards Charlottesville) ended at the Vo-Tech School and tied into the already approved Rio Road. Mr. Blue noted that any alignment of the northern section of the Parkway would effect Dunlora, but the southern section could be tied in at the Vo-Tech School without effecting Dunlora. In response to Mr. Johnson's request, Mr. Cilimberg described how the northern section of the Parkway would effect Dunlora. Mr. Johnson concluded that the "interference" was exclusively at the entrance, and would not go through Dunlora property "per se." 10-19-93 4 Ms. Margaret Fowler, whose property adjoins Dunlora, addressed the Commission. She expressed frustration with the fact that discussion of this Parkway for the last 20 years has been a "threat" to plans for the future of her property. She questioned the need for this multi -million dollar road which is projected to serve only 8,000 vt/day by the year 2015. She felt the widening of 29 North would accommodate the traffic generated by the businesses. Ms. Sue Wilson, a resident of Dunlora, addressed the Commission. She explained how the threat of the Parkway has adversely effected her attempts to sell her home. Ms. MaryAnn Kasevitch (?), a Dunlora resident, pointed out that while only the entrance and tennis courts may be directly impacted, there are homes only a couple of hundred yards from the entrance. She stressed that the noise would have a profound impact on those homes. Mr. Don Wagner, representing the North Charlottesville Business Council, addressed the Commission. He stated the Council was in favor of the Meadow Creek Parkway. "While we have been, and still are, in favor of the Meadow Creek Parkway as an alternate way to get people in and out of town, we have not taken a similar position on the various feeder roads. ... The Business Council, in affirming our support of the Meadow Creek Parkway, is not in any way affirming its support of the roads in the neighborhoods where the neighbors are fighting it." Mr. Wagner expressed no fear of an alignment farther to the east because he was of the opinion that such a road would not hurt the 29 businesses because people who want to shop on Rt. 29 will continue to do so. Mr. Johnson asked if Mr. Wagner's support for a Meadow Creek Parkway was actually support for "an access to the North parallel to 29 but not necessarily this configuration." Mr. Wagner replied: "Yes." Mr. Wagner confirmed that he was not taking any position on a B2, G1, Y1 configuration. There was considerable dicussion at various times throughout the hearing on a connection between the Forest Lakes and Hollymead neighborhoods and the construction of a road crossing the dam. Mr. Grimm read a letter from Mr. Stephen Runkle (representing Mr. Frank Kessler, developer of Forest Lakes), in which the developer expressed support of the connection between the residential areas and offered to build the "road that makes the connection from Forest Lakes North to Hollymead, provided the County assume the responsibility for the dam in the event of failure." The developer's proposal was "to build two lanes only and to make no connection external to the Forest Lakes or Hollymead area." (Though Ms. Hash agreed this would have less of an impact than T1 or T3, she indicated the neighborhoods were not in favor of this connection.) Mr. Steve Runkle was g620 10-19-93 5 present and reiterated the offer made in his letter. He explained the history of the road across the dam. He pointed out that a connector road between the neighborhoods would allow residents to get to the schools and to shopping areas without having to go onto Rt. 29. (In response to a question from a member of the public, he also admitted, later in the meeting, that a connection between the neighborhoods would be of benefit to the developer because it would provide access to amenities in both sections of Forest Lakes. He also thought there was an advantage in separating long -trip from short -trip traffic.) He agreed that Ms. Hash's suggestion of an alignment along the Southern Railroad was sensible, depending on the recommendations of the Comprehensive Plan for growth area expansion. Mr. Jim Murray, representing the Charlottesville -Albemarle Transportation Coalition, addressed the Commission. He explained that CATCO has attempted to address the problem of Rt. 29 which is supposed to be a major north -south route for the State. He concluded: "We are thoroughly convinced that the way to solve the 29 problem is through the sequence that has been developed by these studies that you are familiar with, namely the development of something like the Meadow Creek Parkway --we are not involved at all in the final determination of these feeder routes, etc. --but we thoroughly endorse the idea of a Meadow Creek Parkway as the first solution to the 29 problem after the highway is widened. It would, in addition to that, provide for all these residents in that northern area direct access to the City. The City and the County are intertwined in their welfare and you have to, in your decision making, consider the welfare of the City as well as the County. This would bring traffic into the City and, perhaps, help to revive it from that point of view." Mr. Grimm noted that the Commission is struggling with the issue of whether or not the projected traffic counts (8,000 vtpd) justify the amount of money that will be spent on the road. Mr. Murray responded: "If that figure is correct your decision may be, obviously, to eliminate that northern part. (But) I really feel that something has to serve that northern area to get traffic off 29." Mr. Blue pointed out that the consultant's report states very clearly that the "main objective is not to get traffic off 29; it's to serve the residents of Forest Lakes, Hollymead, Forest Lakes South and points south." He pointed out that the residents of those neighborhoods are 90$ opposed to the road. H2 felt that building the road without the neighborhood connectors would take very little traffic off Rt. 29. Mr. Blue concluded: "I think, .4 al 10-19-93 6 perhaps, there may be a better solution in terms of getting traffic into town other than that northern section of the Meadow Creek Parkway.... Based on the consultant's cost figures and traffic projections, and the design that he made to serve these people that don't want to be served, it seems to me it would be irresponsible for the Planning Commission and the Board of Supervisors to approve it as it is now, although that doesn't eliminate the 29 problem...." [Mr. Cilimberg pointed out that the Executive Summary of the Consultant's report describes the primary purpose of the Parkway to be "to serve local commuting, shopping and recreational traffic. It does not limit itself to just traffic generated out of those particular neighborhoods."] Mr. Grimm noted another issue, i.e. few persons wishing to shop on Rt. 29 North will take the Meadow Creek Parkway from points north to Rio Road. Mr. Johnson drew the following conclusions from the public comments which had been made: "I get the feeling that the term 'Meadow Creek Parkway' is being used somewhat indiscriminately. We, tonight, are considering a particular proposed configuration and if I understand (Mr. Murray's) statement, the Coalition is in support of an alternate access to the North, somewhat parallel to 29, but without going into the details and determining where exactly it ought to be." Mr. Murray confirmed that Mr. Johnson's understanding of the Coalition's position was accurate. There being no further public comment, the matter was placed before the Commission. Ms. Huckle expressed her sympathy for the concerns expressed by the public, but noted that the Commission must consider the welfare of the entire county. She felt the Meadow Creek Parkway "is an essential part of a road network designed to make the improvements on Rt. 29 work properly --it is just one part of a package." She asked what would happen to the "rest of the package" if the County "reneges" on its part of the 4-party agreement. She felt all the people who will suffer during the improvements to Rt. 29 will have suffered "to no avail because the package isn't going to work --the traffic isn't going to move." She was in favor of the Commission approving the Meadow Creek Parkway, consisting of B2, G1 and Y1, but "not speak to any of the connectors and the T roads." She felt they could be built later if needed, but "there is no point in trying to force them on people who don't want them." Mr. Blue disagreed with Ms. Huckle's recommendation. He pointed out that the route described by Ms. Huckle, without the connectors, would cost Y712,000,000 and serve only 8,000 vtpd. He felt this was a tremendous waste of taxpayers' money and "utterly ridiculous." He also did not think VDOT =A 10-19-93 7 would support the road without the connections. He felt the southern section of the Parkway, plus the improvements to Rt. 29, "are going to take care of the problems for a long time." He felt the ultimate solution would be some type of "circumferential" road with some of the existing connections being made use of for a while to come. He suggested the possibility of improvements to 643, east to 649 and then 649 to Rt. 20. Mr. Johnson felt the biggest problem was one of "terminology." He explained: "I have yet to hear anybody, that I can identify, who supports --they all support the Meadow Creek Parkway with the exception of the residents addressing the particular configuration before us. But in every case, from Mr. Murray and on through everyone that I asked, said 'Well, we support the Meadow Creek Parkway, including the CATS Study and all the activities identified under the Piedmont Environmental Council,' it all is a support for a generic term 'Meadow Creek Parkway,' meaning an alternate access from Rio Road, north. For some reason or other, best known to them, the Board determined that they wanted a study of some kind of a configuration like this, and, as identified by the Chairman, the purpose was to serve local, commuting, shopping and recreational traffic, and that is exactly what this configuration does. It serves no more and it has really almost zero potential of expansion and increasing the area which it would serve and those that are potentially being served by this are adamantly against it. So it would serve no useful purpose ... and would cost between seventy and one hundred million dollars. I think this should be considered, and it is amazing to me that they got as far as they did during a time when money is short, etc., that somebody would have visualized this some time ago and cut off the consultant. But I believe that we do need, and recognizing that VDOT is the controlling aspect, a serious meeting with them and discussion with them, pro and con, to see what they would propose, to see what we can do to identify another (route) going north. If we can't justify it to them, how can we justify an expenditure of money to the public? I think this is completely out of order as currently defined. With respect to the W1 an W2 proposal, to my satisfaction, I have identified that that is essentially a fallback position taken by the residents of the northern area to try to combat these particular configurations of the Meadow Creek Parkway, and if we eliminated all those, they wouldn't be in there. So, I would suggest, if we want to make a recommendation, the recommendation be that W2, less W1, would be a reasonable recommendation. This would, in turn, have effect on 606 and 649 around the airport, the airport intersection. It would, perhaps, allow the VDOT to see where they could allow the Deerfield (Deerwood) Subdivision outlet, because it *could potentially take traffic off of 649. ... As currently configured, this serves nobody except the two areas." �?3 10-19-93 s Mr. Grimm attempted to bring the discussion back to "that which we know to be the Meadow Creek Parkway primary proposal." Mr. Johnson noted that there was a recommendation to study further the W1 and W2 in this same request, thus he did not think comment on Wl and W2 should be avoided. Referring to Ms. Huckle's earlier comments on the 4-party agreement, Mr. Blue commented: "I, personnally, don't believe that the University and the City have any real interest in the Meadow Creek Parkway north of Rio Road." He did not think deletion of this part of the parkway would have any effect on the rest of the 4-party agreement. Mr. Johnson again brought up "semantics." He explained: "If we vote against this we are not voting against a Meadow Creek Parkway. We are only voting against this particular configuration of a road. The Meadow Creek Parkway can still stand and I am not certain the tri-party (four -party) agreement addressed this particular configuration and, perhaps, it address what has been identified here tonight as an alternate access to the north and we call it the Meadow Creek Parkway." Mr. Grimm agreed that the discussion should be addressing the route recommended by the consultant's study and whether or not "we want to accept that recommendation made by the consultants or do we not want to make a recommendation for that." Ms. Huckle noted that though a route "further east and north to Rt. 649" might be preferable, such a route would similarly effect other subdivisions and Rt. 649 would need to be upgraded considerably. She concluded: "Maybe as much as we think this could be improved, maybe this is the answer to this." Mr. Grimm noted that during the years this concept has been discussed, Rt. 29 north has been developed to where it is a major shopping corridor for the entire area, and most people will take Rt. 29 to conduct the major portion of their shopping. He felt people living in the 29 north area will continue to take Rt. 29 to reach employment in town. Though they might take the new bypass, he did not think they would use the Meadow Creek Parkway. They will also return home via Rt. 29 north so they will be able to take advantage of the shopping opportunities on their way home. He felt that at the time the Meadow Creek Parkway was first conceived the "big attraction" of Rt. 29 may not have been envisioned. He concluded: "I'm having a hard time recommending approval of the Meadow Creek north of Rio. I really like the part south of Rio and that is the part the City really likes, too." He noted that Rio Road has been improved and he =A 10-19-93 9 agreed with Mr. Blue "that that's the route and I think it would serve us." Ms. Huckle recalled that Mr. Wagner had indicated that he felt "too much traffic was counter -productive to good commerce (because) people who might like to shop there will avoid that road." Mr. Johnson summarized: "I venture to say that this is all much ado about nothing. As recently as a year and a half ago, VDOT has apparently taken the position that this configuration is unacceptable to them, so unless we can figure out where we are going to get seventy or one hundred million dollars ... it isn't going to happen unless VDOT approves and they have indicated, according to Mr. Runkle, that they won't." Referring to a recent presentation to the Board by VDOT on the Western Bypass, Mr. Cilimberg explained: "It was specifically noted that they were bringing the bypass in at the location of the Meadow Creek Parkway as proposed by the County's Comprehensive Plan. They didn't commit to fund any of Meadow Creek, and I don't think you're going to get that very quickly, but they did recognize that location and they are obviously, right now, deferring to what the County and, ultimately, what the CATS plan says about the Meadow Creek Parkway. They are recognizing that that location exists, coming west below Forest Lakes, and they have made a bypass connection there and stated that that bypass connection was to be at a point where Meadow Creek would also intersect 29." Mr. Jenkins felt there was no question that a road, and a good plan, was needed. He felt that Mr. Blue's suggestion for a road further out "would give people a choice" and once it is learned that congestion can be avoided, "those things work." However, he concluded that he could not support the consultant's proposal because of the limited benefit for a large expenditure. Mr. Nitchmann felt the negatives of this proposed alignment far outweighed the positives. He concluded: "The costs do not equal the benefits neither from a local standpoint (local meaning the residents of that area) nor for the rest of the County. I also feel the opposition of all the residents has to be taken into consideration, and the safety issues that go along with that." He indicated he agreed with Mr. Blue's position and also with Mr. Johnson's comments, i.e. "The Meadow Creek Parkway is just the name for a concept and not necessarily 'this is where it's going to be."' He felt the idea has "gotten this far because maybe it has been pushed years ago by people who want to protect the western part of the County from having a bypass through their land vs. having it over here, and maybe that's 10-19-93 10 still true today, I don't know." He concluded: "It would appear to me, from a cost benefit standpoint, that we need to be looking at something that maybe moves out a little bit farther east and maybe something like Cynthia Hash's recommendation to go farther north. It also points out one thing: We are moving into a Comprehensive Plan Review and maybe we should be taking a lot of time in considering where we can put a road with the least amount of impact on the citizens of the County before we start looking at where the growth areas areas are going to be 40 or 50 years from now. Maybe if we had done that this wouldn't have occurred. ... But I cannot support this concept of the Meadow Creek Parkway north of Rio Road." Ms. Andersen suggested that during the Comprehensive Plan review "we put some teeth into either putting moratoriums on developments where we put roads or something like that, otherwise I see us doing exactly the same thing which we've done now --we'll take 20 years to make a plan and come time to have the road constructed, we'll be faced with the identical situation that we have now. So we either have to say to ourselves 'A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush' and seize the moment and go for this because it has taken 20 years to get here, or we have to really focus on how we are going to do something that will prevent a repeat of this again." Ms. Huckle pointed out that the roads through the subdivisions had been plated and dedicated, though they weren't built when they should have been. Mr. Blue added that the road through Forest Lakes and Hollymead was planned and dedicated. He continued: "It turns out the residents just don't want it. ... In fact, the Forest Lakes Road was built even with more base than needed because they knew it would be used for a through road in the future." Ms. Huckle also noted that the developer of Dunlora had known of the impact of the Meadow Creek Parkway. The Commission invited comment from Mr. Dan Roosevelt, representing VDOT. Mr. Roosevelt addressed the Commission. His comments and answers to Commission questions included the following: --The reason VDOT had not allowed Forest Lakes South to show "connections" on their plan was because VDOT "said their plan should reflect lines that were currently approved and the line that is currently approved, as shown in the CATS plan, runs up Forest Lakes South and up through Forest Lakes North. We said that is the line that should be shown on any plat or plan." --"We're not saying that we were opposed, or had any feelings one way or the other, about this line that would run between Forest Lakes South and the Rivanna River. What V46 10-19-93 11 we're saying is that that line is not on any approved plan and we didn't feel that it should be reflected on the Forest Lakes South plan. I think our judgment appears to have been proper since it appears that you are going to reject this line. " --"If the CATS plan is eventually revised to show a new alignment for the Meadow Creek Parkway, certainly the department would be a part of that decision since we have one vote in five on the MPO that would make that decision. We would then have to support that line as something that we would either participate in building or certainly maintain once it was built." --"Concerning the Meadow Creek Parkway current alignment, we have said that under certain conditions the department would agree to fund that roadway. Those conditions are basically that it be built to give preference to through traffic rather than local traffic. In fact the section that has been built through Forest Lakes North has been built to that concept. It has intersections that are widely spaced and there are no individual lots that have direct access to that right -of --way. We have agreed and anticipate that when that section through Forest Lakes North was built to the ultimate standard, that the department would be the one that would finance the additional construction." --In response to Mr. Blue's question as to whether or not the CATS plan should have been revised rather than hiring a consultant, Mr. Roosevelt stated: "I was under the impression this was a step in that process. It would go through you to the Board of Supervisors. If they agreed on an alignment that they would then take it to the MPO, which represents both jurisdictions, City and County, and the department, and ultimately a request would be made to the MPO to provide the money." [Mr. Blue felt the "Only thing different about this" was "this is one of the first situations, locally, where the County has invested a good bit of its own money in hiring a consultant to do a design like this."] --In response to Mr. Blue's question as to whether or not VDOT would participate in a road with this kind of cost to serve the traffic it is projected to serve (8,000 vtpd), Mr. Roosevelt declined to comment. --In response to Mr. Blue's question as to VDOT's support for the concept of the Meadow Creek Parkway, Mr. Roosevelt stated: "I think at this moment the department supports some line in the Meadow Creek Corridor, basically from Rio Road to 29 north of the south fork of the Rivanna, which is what I consider to be the Meadow Creek Corridor. I don't have access to all the information that has been generated, even to this point, much less additional information as to effects on other roads that if you drop some of these Sines --I think all that would have to be studied by the department." o 10-19-93 12 --In response to Mr. Johnson's question as to an anticipated date for the revision of the CAT Study, VDOT's official representative on the MPO stated that the entire plan is to be revised by October -November 1994. ---In response to Ms. Huckle's question regarding which alignments will be considered (the consultant's or one farther east and north), Mr. Roosevelt stated that the department will consider what the MPO directs it to consider. He confirmed that "any group" can make any recommendations to the MPO for modifications to the plan (by following the proper process). Ms. Andersen asked: "How did we arrive at stating the purpose for the study that was done, knowing VDOT's position regarding through traffic?" Mr. Cilimberg responded: "It was the decision of the Board of Supervisors in 1989 to tie the Meadow Creek Parkway in further south and establish that as the Comprehensive Plan route with the connections to residential areas. And when that occurred, the purpose, so to speak, what would be the Meadow Creek and those connectors, was to try to relieve 29 by taking the commuting traffic, the local traffic, and bringing it down in the city, and points north of the city, rather than having it use 29. So, the consultant's charge was based on that kind of function. It will still have the obvious possibility of having some through traffic, but the idea was that the Meadow Creek Parkway was not a through traffic route in the sense that you were trying to take traffic from the north and take it east and south of the city. It was considered to be more of a localized road that would take the commuter traffic and other local traffic. In that sense, it's through traffic if you're sitting in Forest Lakes or if you are sitting in any residential area between 29 and downtown." Mr. Blue: "It was a good idea. But over the past year we have heard nothing but negative comments about that proposed route from the people that it was designed to serve." MOTION: Mr. Blue moved that it be recommended to the Board of Supervisors that this alignment of the Meadow Creek Parkway, north of Rio Road to Rt. 29, including the T connectors, be "taken out of consideration completely." (Mr. Blue added: "That's not to say that we're opposed to a route parallel to Rt. 29 in the Meadow Creek Corridor area.) Mr. Blue confirmed that his motion was to recommend against the consultant's route, the B2, G1, Y1 out to 29, including the T connectors, and the W's. Mr. Blues confirmed his motion included the w's. Mr. Johnson seconded the motion. 10-19-93 13 Discussion: BLUE: "From what I've heard, and what I've seen, I don't believe that the Meadow Creek Parkway in any location there is going to achieve what we want it to do. I still think that we have got a radial route into town with Rt. 29 and the improved Rio Road, south, and improvements to 29, and what MPO, VDOT and other interested parties should be considering is a circumferential to take through traffic around the metropolitan area and the Meadow Creek Parkway is not needed." There was a brief discussion of the W's. Mr. Grimm felt: "The W which runs east to west (from 606 out to 29) is an important road." Mr. Blue agreed. Ms. Huckle noted that a developer (Mr. Wendall Wood) is supposed to build that road. Mr. Cilimberg pointed out: "Those W's would align at two existing signalized intersections and are not altogether on his property." Mr. Blue felt the W's would be "worthy of consideration" if the Meadow Creek Parkway were to be approved, but right now, he felt the W's were a separate issue. Mr. Nitchmann asked: "Wouldn't it appear that if VDOT is going to fund a Western Bypass that they would just pick it up and build it up a little farther north and build W1? It makes good sense to me." Mr. Johnson commented: "The limited service and negligible growth potential do not justify the cost or location of any of the identified configurations." Ms. Andersen stated she "hated to see all this go down the drain." The previously stated motion to recommend against the consultant's alignment passed (5:2) with Commissioners Huckle and Andersen casting the dissenting votes. Mr. Cilimberg attempted to clarify the Commission's action: "I understood when Mr. Blue made his motion he indicated that your motion is speaking particularly to the proposals of the consultant and that it was not necessarily saying that the concept of the Meadow Creek Parkway is not appropriate." Mr. Grimm: "We are not opposed to some kind of a parallel route going up there." Mr. Blue: "I think that's right, but I would like to add I personally believe that if we were to propose a Meadow Creek Parkway that ran right along the Southern Railway track and stayed completely in their right-of-way, we would still get a lot of opposition." MISCELLANEOUS V-,q-9 10-19-93 14 Mr. Johnson inquired as to the status of the Commission's recommendation to the Board for a Task Force on Education and Training. He recalled that the Commission had made a unanimous recommendation on June 8, 1993. He stated: "I think the position of the Commission ought to be to recommend to the Board that this proceed in an expeditious manner." (There was no comment from other Commissioners.) ----------------- Mr. Johnson asked for a status report on the study of Zoning regulations which cause barriers to affordable housing. (Mr. Cilimberg reported that meetings are occurring, but he was uncertain as to when a final report would be ready.) ----------------- Mr. Cilimberg distributed a sample of questions which will be covered in the City and County survey. There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 10:20 p.m. V. Wayne ili er secret ry DB W