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HomeMy WebLinkAbout06 26 90 PC MinutesJUNE 26, 1990 The Albemarle County Planning Commission held a public hearing on Tuesday, June 26, 1990, Meeting Room 7, County Office Building, Charlottesville, Virginia. Those members present were: Mr. Keith Rittenhouse, Chairman; Mr. Harry Wilkerson, Vice Chairman; Mr. Phil Grimm; Mr. Tom Jenkins; Ms. Ellen Andersen; Mr. Walter Johnson; and Ms. Babs Huckle. Other officials present were: Mr. Ron Keeler, Chief of Planning; Mr. Davis Benish, Chief of Community Development; Mr. Richard Tarbell, Planner; and Mr. Jim Bowling, Deputy County Attorney. The Chairman called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. and established that a quorum was present. CONSENT AGENDA Leisure Land Final Plat - Proposal to subdivide 1.44 acres from an existing 9.507 acre parcel of vacant land. Zoned HC, Highway Commercial. Property, described as a portion of Tax Map 32, Parcel 20A3 is located on the east side of Rt. 29N, approximately 1/4 mile north of its intersection with Rt. 649. This site is located within the Community of Hollymead in the Rivanna Magisterial District. Private -Public Transit Alternative for Urban Albemarle County - Review of Recommendations 1989 Annual Report Mr. Wilkerson moved, seconded by Mr. Jenkins, that the Consent Agenda be approved. The motion passed (6:1). (Ms. Huckle abstained because she had not been present at the June 19th meeting when the Consent Agenda had been previewed.) SUB-90-063 - Ingleside Preliminary Plat - Proposal to create 12 lots averaging 6.99 acres from two parcels totalling 88.40 acres. Property, described as Tax Map 60, Parcel 1 and "X", is located on the north side of Route 601 across from the Inglecress Subdivision. Zoned RA, Rural Areas in the Jack Jouett Magisterial District. Mr. Tarbell presented the staff report. Staff recommended approval subject to conditions. The Commission had several questions about the silt basin, which staff was recommending be constructed to meet the demands of a ten-year storm. Mr. Wilkerson asked about the IV-9s- June 26, 1990 Page 2 difference between a two-year and a ten-year storm. (Staff did not know the difference in the expected amount of rainfall but explained that a two-year storm can be expected to occur once every two years and a ten-year storm once every ten years.) Mr. Rittenhouse asked if there was enough room for the construction of the basin. (Mr. Tarbell replied that there should be room though it would be "tight.") Mr. Johnson asked about the maintenance of the basin. (Mr. Keeler explained that a silt basin is supposed to function just during construction and will probably be allowed to just "silt up" after construction is complete.) Mr. Johnson asked if a bond would be required until the road is taken into the State system. (Mr. Tarbell replied that the road must be constructed or bonded before staff will sign the plat.) Ms. Huckle asked if bonding was required for the silt basin. (Mr. Keeler stated that a bond should be required as part of the Soil Erosion plan but it was not necessary to make it a condition of approval.) The applicant was represented by Mr. James Gercke. He offered to answer Commission questions. There being no public comment, the matter was placed before the Commission. Ms. Huckle asked why the road was not located on a flater part of the property. Mr. Gercke explained that the location of the road had been determined by two design criteria: (1) The desire to protect the existing race track; and (2) The identification of logical and natural building sites. He stated the road had thus been designed to serve the building sites. Mr. Jenkins asked how the creation of this 88 acre tract effected the development rights of the original piece of property from which it was taken. Mr. Tarbell explained that the 88 acre tract had been created in May, 1990 "with all their development rights." Thus the remainder (approximately 220 acres) can only be developed in 21 acre parcels. Mr. Wilkerson felt the proposal was "staightforward" and therefore moved that SUB-90-063, Ingleside Preliminary Plat, be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. The final plat shall not be signed until the following conditions are met: az( June 26, 1990 Page 3 a. Department of Engineering approval of road and drainage plans and calculations; b. Department of Engineering issuance of an erosion control permit to include a silt basin located downstream of the proposed culvert near station 15+00on road "B". The basin shall be constructed to meet the demands of a ten-year storm; (NOTE: This condition was further amended later in the meeting.) C. Department of Engineering approval of drainage easement plats; d. Virginia Department of Transportation approval of road and drainage plans and calculations; e. Dedication of right-of-way to accommodate the turn and taper lane; f. Residue strips of land on the north side of the roads shall be transferred back to Tax Map 60, Parcel 1. 2. Administrative approval of the final plat. Ms. Huckle expressed extreme concern about the critical slopes and the amount of fill which would be necessary to construct the road across two gullies. She was also concerned about construction which would take place in such close proximity to one of the main tributaries of the reservoir. She stated that though she was aware of this developer's good reputation, she could not support this proposal. Mr. Grimm seconded Mr. Wilkerson's motion for approval. Discussion: Ms. Andersen asked if staff could comment on how much soil could possibly get into the stream, i.e. how much would the silt basin not collect? Mr. Keeler could not answer definitively but stated that even the most effective soil erosion measures are only about 75% effective. He added that the nature of the soil is a factor because fine soils stay in suspension in water for long periods and therefore the basin will not catch those soils. He stated that Albemarle County, in general, has a lot of fine -type soils. Mr. Johnson asked if the road were constructed in another location (such as across the dam) would a silt basin be necessary? Mr. Keeler responded that VDOT would not accept a road which crosses a dam. 0?3 7 June 26, 1990 Page 4 Ms. Huckle asked if she was correct in her understanding that fill would be required in two different places for the road construction, but that a second basin was not possible to contain the runoff from the second smaller fill area. Mr. Keeler responded that the smaller area would have 8--10 feet of fill and does not have "as defined a channel." He added that if that was of concern to the Commission, then staff would pursue the issue and ask the County Engineer and Watershed Management Official to review that possibility. He noted that in some cases excavation for a silt basin may do more harm than good and other measures may be preferable. Mr. Johnson asked if that was possibly already included in condition 1(b). Mr. Tarbell stated that the Erosion Control Officer would "require this anyway in his review of the Erosion Control Plan." Mr. Tarbell added that he would prefer the issue resolved and clarified now. Mr. Johnson felt that would probably be done automatically. Mr. Keeler felt that the Zoning and Subdivision Ordinances offered more authority because they recognized the reservoir and the Soil Erosion Ordinance does not. Mr. Keeler quoted from the building site provisions of the ordinance: "The County Engineer shall require such protective and restorative measures as he deems necessary to insure that such development be consistent with the intent of the critical slopes provisions." He felt that language provided the authority to require additional or larger basins, more detention, etc. He stressed, however, that this was under the purview of the County Engineer. Both Commissioner Wilkerson and Commissioner Grimm agreed to the following amendment to condition l(b): "Department of Engineering issuance of an erosion control permit to include a silt basin located downstream of the proposed culvert near station 15+00 on road "B" and possibly a second basin located downhill at station 19 1/2 on road "B" if deemed appropriate by the Watershed Management Official and the County Engineer. The basin shall be constructed to meet the demands of a ten-year storm." Mr. Rittenhouse noted that the motion contemplated staff approval of the final plat and staff was aware of the Commission's concerns. Mr. Keeler noted that if there was a difference between the County Engineer and the Watershed Management Official the matter would be returned to the Commission. .139 June 26, 1990 Page 5 The previously stated motion for approval of the Ingleside Preliminary Plat passed (6:1) with Commission Huckle casting the dissenting vote. SDP-90-041 University Heights Phase II Preliminary Site Plan - Proposal to construct 30,450 square foot apartment building for 52 residential condominium units on 4.96 acres. Property, described as Tax Map 60, Parcel 4008, is located at the end of Colonnade Drive off of Route 250. Zoned R-15, Residential in the Jack Jouett Magisterial District. Mr. Tarbell presented the staff report. The report explained that the applicant was requesting a waiver of Section 4.2.3.2 Critical Slopes to allow part of the building to encroach on critical slope areas. (It was this issue which generated the most discussion among the Commissioners.) The staff felt the request was justified based on the following: 11(1) This design alternative allows for underground parking which consolidates the development and minimizes the amount of grading; and (2) A property owner is entitled to a reasonable usage of the land. The property is presently zoned for a density of 15 dwelling units per acre and designated in the Comprehensive Plan as high density which is 10 to 34 dwelling units per acre. The proposed building would consist of 52 residential condominiums for a gross density of 10.50 dwelling units per acre which is the low end of the high density designation." Staff recommended approval of the waiver with the following stipulations: (1) Deletion of the deck and terrace at the rear of the building and deletion or relocation of the pool to the northeast corner of the site. (The report explained the deck was located primarily on critical slopes and was not a necessary part of the building and the relocation of the pool would decrease noise levels to adjacent properties.) (2) Relocation of the building to the south and east. (The report explained this would reduce the intrusion on critical slope areas from 4,500 square feet within the critical areas to 1,000 - 1,500 square feet.) The staff report concluded: "Should the Commission grant the waiver of critical slopes regulations in accordance with Section 4.2.5 staff recommends approval of this site plan" subject to conditions. Mr. Johnson asked why staff was recommending that the existing gravel road (Albemarle County Service Authority access road) be paved with concrete. Mr. Tarbell explained that staff was concerned about erosion. Mr. Johnson felt ;239 June 26, 1990 Page 6 that a gravel road was preferable under inclement weather conditions. In response to Mr. Johnson's question, Mr. Tarbell again explained why staff was recommending removal of the terrace and decks (see above). In response to Mr. Rittenhouse's question, Mr. Tarbell explained that the slope areas in question (in the green area) were 25% to 30% slopes. In response to Mr. Grimm's question about detention plans, Mr. Tarbell responded that the applicant had satisfied the Engineering Department's concerns. The applicant was represented by Mr. Frank Cox. He felt the critical issue was the request for the waiver of the critical slopes provisions. He explained briefly the history of the development and the current proposal. He stated the proposal for 52 units represents only 75% of what was hoped for the site. Mr. Cox also commented on some other alternatives for the site which had been considered. He stated that though the applicant would go along with staff's suggested relocation of the pool, the original location of the pool (on the back side) was preferrable. He felt that some of the factors which usually apply to critical slope issues (e.g. floodplains, erosion and sedimentation control, subsurface water supplies, etc.) should not apply in this case given the urban environment of the site. He felt the applicant had exhausted all options in an effort to arrive at the smallest footprint which would cause the least environmental disturbance. He noted that the water tank used up a considerable amount of the usable area of the property. Ms. Huckle expressed concern about shallow depth to bedrock in this area. Mr. Cox stated that no extensive studies had been done. Ms. Huckle asked what the applicant would do if it is discovered that necessary blasting may cause a financial hardship or the underground parking facility is too expensive to construct. Mr. Cox responded: "We would probably fold our tents and go home." He added, however, that there are ways to lift a building so as to minimize blasting and rock excavation and that would probably be considered if problems are encountered. Mr. Tarbell confirmed that any significant change in the site plan would require reevaluation by staff and could be brought back to the Commission if that was the Commission's desire. Regarding the possibility of raising the building, he stated staff's only concern would be in relation to height limitation. ,2A10 June 26, 1990 Page 7 Mr. Wilkerson stated he would like to see the site plan again if the building should have to be raised. In response to Mr. Johnson's question, Mr. Cox confirmed that the applicant would prefer that the pool be on the back side of the building for marketing reasons. The Chairman invited public comment. Ms. Julia Campbell, an adjacent property owner, addressed the Commission. Ms. Campbell expressed several concerns including noise from the development, trespassing on her property by residents of the development and the maintenance of a shared small section of road. She asked if there could be a deed restriction about noise levels and also if a fence could be constructed on the side of the building adjacent to her property, but her primary concern dealt with the road maintenance issue. Ms. Campbell explained that she was currently providing the entire maintenance for a short section of road that led to a private road to her home. She explained that the road was owned by Mr. Vining who also used it but contributed nothing to its maintenance and it was also used as a pedestrian throughfare for residents of University Heights. She asked that the applicant be required to help in the maintenance of this road. The road maintenance was discussed at some length. Mr. Tarbell pointed out the short section of road to which Ms. Campbell had referred. He noted that Ms. Campbell was not objecting to the pedestrian use of the road, but was rather asking that the residents of the applicant's development share in its maintenance. Mr. Cox felt the issue was recognizing that the applicant has a pedestrian easement to use the road and it is being used by pedestrians only. Mr. Cox stated he felt the two property owners could work things out "because we recognize the fact that there's been a problem there." There was a brief discussion about Ms. Campbell's request for a fence along her property line. Ms. Anderson asked about Mr. Vining's responsibility to help maintain the road. Mr. Bowling explained that would depend on the terms of the easement and Ms. Campbell had indicated that there was no maintenance requirement in the easement. aIll June 26, 1990 Page 8 Mr. Rittenhouse stated that the question for the Commission to consider was whether it could reasonably require a condition which would require this developer to share maintenance for a pedestrian easement which the applicant already possesses. Mr. Cox stated: "Mr. Chairman, we would be more than happy to acknowledge to Ms. Campbell and to the Commission that we would be willing to use the maintenance people at our project to do standard clean-up, fix -up, police -up type activities in the area that our project will effect. I'm not sure that we want to build a chain -link fence around the top of the project." He doubted that there would be a trespassing problem given the steep slopes in the area. (Ms. Campbell disagreed.) There being no further public comment, the matter was placed before the Commission. Mr. Rittenhouse commented on the issue of critical slopes and the Commission's traditional way of reviewing this aspect of an application. He noted that the Commission relies heavily on the Engineering Department's comments for the more technical aspects of an evaluation. He stated, in this instance, he was not completely satisfied with the depth of the Engineering Department's recommendations. However, he noted that Engineering has examined the request and supports the waiver. There followed a discussion about staff's suggested relocation of the building. (Mr. Rittenhouse noted that staff's condition No. 2 would "nail down that location.") Mr. Jenkins asked staff to comment on a second waiver which was was alluded to in the staff report. Mr. Tarbell responded that it was not actually a waiver but rather just the Commission's "recognition that in accordance with Section 18.8 that you are moving the building closer to a single-family residence although it is zoned R-15 and high density. The specific language speaks to the fact that there is that additional setback which in this case totals 65 feet from adjacent single-family districts or rural agricultural districts." He stated that, as shown, the setback is 65 feet which staff felt was sensitive to the neighbors. He continued: "If you don't have any problem with moving it to the south --to the left as you see it --you can do that too. The minimum setback then would be twenty a /9 June 26, 1990 Page 9 feet. what weld do is probably relocate it as much south as possible while still maintaining a grading plan which is sensitive to the site." In response to Mr. Rittenhouse's request, Mr. Tarbell pointed out on the plan the result of relocating the building as envisioned by staff. Mr. Johnson questioned what was being achieved by relocating the building 30 feet or moving the pool to the front. Mr. Tarbell pointed out that moving the building would mean less critical slope area would be disturbed. Mr. Johnson questioned what was to be gained by avoiding critical slope areas, e.g. less erosion? Mr. Tarbell stated that in terms of granting the waiver and in consideration of future projects which may involve this same issue, it would simply mean less intrusion, and less grading in critical slope areas. Mr. Johnson stated he could understand the concern, "technically speaking," but he felt each case should be evaluated on its own merit and in this case he stated he "failed to see anything to be gained from a practical standpoint, one way or another." Mr. Rittenhouse stated the Zoning Ordinance was very clear and stated "you shall not do it --you shall not develop on critical slopes, period," and that is the posture in which the Commission begins its review of the issue. The Commission then looks to the Engineering Department for guidance as to whether or not it makes sense technically. He added that since the Ordinance says not to do it, then "the less we do it the better off we are, assuming the Ordinance is valid and critical slopes should be avoided." Mr. Johnson stated he could see nothing to be gained "from an engineering standpoint, an ecological standpoint or any other standpoint other than being able to say 'We tried to comply with the zoning.' I think that's a very foolish, unsupportable position to take without reason." He added that he could see no reason to move the pool to the front as suggested by staff because leaving it at the back, up against the mountain, would offer some protection against noise. Mr. Rittenhouse disagreed with Mr. Johnson's comments in relation to the Ordinance. He stated: "I think we have to say that the Ordinance is valid without questioning it on an individual case -by -case basis. If it is not, then we have to change the Ordinance. But it is in place ... and I think it behooves us to avoid the critical slopes." .2413 June 26, 1990 Page 10 Mr. Johnson stated: "If it is the procedure of the Commission and the Board of Supervisors to go to the Ordinance and say it says 'Thus and so' and say 'That's the way we are going to do it, period' then this could all be quantitized, put in a computer and when an applicant comes in you can press the Questionmark Key and it will come out Yes or No. We're here to evaluate case--by-case and see, using the Ordinance as a base, if it's reasonable to completely comply with it, partially comply with it or ignor it completely, and make that decision on a human basis, not a computer basis." Mr. Wilkerson stated he agreed, "but that decision may set a precedent that may be good today, but may not be good tomorrow." Mr. Johnson felt the only precedent set was that "the Planning Commission used logic in arriving at their determination." Mr. Rittenhouse commented: "Hopefully we have already set that precedent." Mr. Tarbell pointed out that the Commission did not have to agree with staff's recommendation to relocate the building and the pool, but unless they specifically stated otherwise, the conditions of approval as presented would relocate the building and pool as shown. The Chairman invited the applicant to comment on the relocation of the building to the south. Mr. Bart Fry spoke for the applicant and stated that amenities were critical and the pool issue was the most important from a market standpoint. Regarding the shift of the building to the south, he stated he did not think it was a particularly significant issue other than the fact that it might effect the views somewhat. Mr. Johnson asked about the issue of the fence requested by Ms. Campbell. Mr. Rittenhouse stated the Commission needed to decide that question. In response to Ms. Huckle's question, Mr. Tarbell explained that the slope areas were wooded. He also stated that there would be a wooded buffer between this development and Ms. Campbell's property, but it would probably still be visible to Ms. Campbell because of the elevation of her property. June 26, 1990 Page 11 Mr. Grimm asked if there was any Zoning Requirement that would require such a fence_ Staff knew of no such requirement. Mr. Wilkerson noted that the applicant should be commended for offering to use some of his personnel to help in the maintenance of the road. Mr. Wilkerson noted that though he agreed with Mr. Rittenhouse's concerns about the Engineering Department's report, approval had been given by Engineering and therefore he moved that the University Heights Phase II Preliminary Site Plan be approved subject to the following conditions: 1. The final plan shall not be signed until the following conditions are met: a) Department of Engineering approval of grading and drainage plans and calculations; b) Department of Engineering approval of pavement specifications to include bituminous concrete on the Albemarle County Service Authority access road; c) Department of Engineering approval of stormwater detention plans and calculations; d) Department of Engineering approval of retaining wall design; e) Department of Engineering issuance of an erosion control permit; f) Fire Official approval of blasting plans; 2. Relocation of the building in accordance with the plan initialled RET and dated June 26, 1990. 3. Provision of a sidewalk along the apartment access road. 4. A certificate of occupancy will not be issued until the following condition is met: a) Fire Official final approval. 5. Administrative approval of the final site plan. 6. Administrative approval of the final plat. 7. Staff approval of the road maintenance agreement between the property owners using Colonnade Drive. .1*5' June 26, 1990 Page 12 (Ms. Huckle asked if a condition should be added requiring Commission review in the event of a change in the site plan. Mr. Wilkerson felt staff had already indicated that would be the case. Mr. Rittenhouse added that typically staff is aware of the Commission's concerns and will bring any changes back to the Commission which if feels the Commission would want to review.) Mr. Grimm seconded the motion for approval. Discussion: In response to Mr. Jenkins' question, Mr. Tarbell stated this was the last parcel of this site which would allow apartment buildings. Mr. Johnson stated he would support the motion, but he did not agree with the relocation of the pool. He stated: "It's being done, as I see, technically to satisfy critical slopes at the expense of the ecology --the effects of the building." The previously stated motion for approval passed (6:1) with Commissioner Jenkins casting the dissenting vote. MISCELLANEOUS Mr. Rittenhouse noted that former Commissioners would be recognized at the July 10, 1990 meeting. Ms. Huckle brought up the question of why the Commission had spent so much time discussing critical slopes on the University Heights application, which did not effect the watershed, but "whizzed through" the Ingleside application which was very critical to the watershed. Mr. Rittenhouse responded that the amount of area in critical slopes is a very important consideration, i.e. are they small, isolated areas or is the area significant? Ms. Huckle felt 37 feet of fill was significant and the fact that it was "loose" would make it more erodable. Mr. Rittenhouse also pointed out that a factor was also the fact that the Ingleside road would be a State road and therefore the State's right-of-way would include the fill slope and the State would maintain it. a 1/4 June 26, 1990 Page 13 Mr. Johnson felt Ms. Huckle's point was a valid one. He commented: "There we have a critical slope next to a waterway and here we have a critical slope next to nothing. Engineering and nobody can make any comment as to why we were worried about a critical slope other than there happened to be a critical slope and somebody wrote it into a document. There's no justification, no logic, no nothing." Mr. Keeler commented: "I have been pushing for this for eight years now. We've reached the point where we have a Water Resources Committee and they are evaluating all the Ordinances that address mud, dirt and water. What I would like to see happen would be to remove from the Zoning Ordinance all reservoir protective measures and incorporate those in a Runoff Control Ordinance and let that document stand on it's own. The problem I've had for years in writing provisions in this ordinance is that I'm writing provisions for multiple purposes. It applies county -wide but I also have to be concerned about whether it applies in the reservoir watershed and by the time I finish writing them it's got so many ifs, ands or buts that sometimes (even) I get confused. I thought there was language in here which would address this type of development but I left out the fatal words that would address this particular issue. I just think it's unwieldy at this point in time to attempt, in the Zoning Ordinance, to write provisions --and most everything in here applies county -wide --and then try to also include language that makes it work within a reservoir watershed too." (Ms. Huckle asked what the "fatal words" were.) Mr. Keeler responded: "There's a provision in there which permits fill and the fatal words which I left out were 'provided no such activity shall occur within 100 horizontal feet of a tributary of a reservoir watershed.'" Mr. Rittenhouse stated he felt this was one facet of the Commission's dual role of implementing the Ordinances and applying judgment and at the same time to looking at what the Ordinances say. He stated: "We really don't have the latitude to modify an Ordinance as we go on a particular issue." Mr. Bowling interjected: "I think Mr. Johnson made some good points. You do have discretion." Mr. Rittenhouse replied: "We do in interpreting the Ordinance but not in modifying the Ordinance." June 26, 1990 Page 14 Mr. Bowling stated: "There's a fine line there. This is a good example. You could have done whatever you wanted to do and I don't think that legally it would have made any difference at all for all the other cases that came later in interpreting critical slopes. That's the kind of discretion that you do have." Mr. Rittenhouse pointed out that that is part of the dual role of the Commission, i.e. to be cognizant of the opportunity to improve the Ordinance when appropriate. Mr. Johnson stated: "We don't have to wait. When the situation comes up --there needs to be a waiver or a change --I think we should take it, bite the bullet, do it and then see what happens." Mr. Rittenhouse felt these were two different issues, i.e. how to deal with waivers vs. the structure of the Ordinance. Mr. Keeler pointed out that he did not have the staff to deal with all the issues which need to be dealt with and some of those need to be taken over by some of the other County officials, e.g. the Watershed Management Official, the County Engineer. He stated there are currently "too many cooks stirring the broth and there are a lot of little holes." Mr. Keeler stated he felt the proposed location for the public road in the Ingleside project was in the worst possible place, but there was nothing in the Ordinance to prevent it at the moment. Mr. Keeler stated that staff was aware of the Commission's concerns, but he added: "I do think we have to take a lot of stuff out of this Ordinance and put it somewhere else because we are just spinning our wheels." He listed all the Ordinances that staff now has to deal with and stated it is just too many for one department to have to deal with, particularly when in many cases the Planning Department is not the agency which administers the ordinance. He felt it might be time "to remove some of the protective measures and let the Chesapeake Bay provisions stand on their own as a separate ordinance and take all reservoir language out of here and put it in the Runoff Control Ordinance where, in my opinion, it really belongs." Mr. Wilkerson asked if the "fatal words" which Mr. Keeler had referred to should be put in now. Mr. Keeler responded June 26, 1990 Page 15 that currently the Watershed Management Official has some proposed amendments before the Board of Supervisors and "rather than doing it here we may want to sit down with the Watershed Management Official and suggest we change the language that he's considering putting in that ordinance to include this privilege." Ms. Huckle asked if the Commission had had the power to make modifications on the Ingleside application. Mr. Bowling responded: "That's more difficult.... You have a specific section of language in the Ordinance concerning building areas which suggests that access roads either leading to or within the building area are subject to certain requirements concerning the environment. It seems to be there, but you can also argue that the requirements for building areas is concerned only with the driveway portions of access roads. The next section concerns the improvements and it says 'No improvements shall be built on critical slopes BUT' and then it says 'fill areas.' It's your ordinance and basically you could interpret it to have that power if you want to. It's just that it's not black and white." Ms. Huckle suggested that perhaps the fill areas should be removed. Mr. Keeler commented on the stockpiling activity at the Ingleside site. He stated: "Under the Ordinance it's by -right; it requires the Wateshed Management Official's approval within 300 feet of a tributary. I'm not sure there's any real clear answer to that because when you have a construction project here which has overburden, you have to move it. Maybe make it applicable everywhere except within a reservoir watershed --I don't know. These are matters which you all may want to ask us to refer directly to the Water Resources Committee when they are reviewing the various ordinances and formulating new provisions to the Ordinance." Mr. Johnson stated that his experience on the Commission has given him the feeling that "we're not looking at the forest because we can't even seem the ... trees because of the leaves." He questioned why staff should have to take time to review items which are necessary requirements such as Fire Official approval, etc. He felt that anything which was automatic should not be addressed by the Commission unless there was "an exception to be taken." He felt that would free some of staff's time. '949 June 26, 1990 Page 16 Mr. Wilkerson pointed out that many items are included in the staff report for the benefit of the public and the applicant. Mr. Johnson felt it was the responsibility of the public to ask questions. He felt staff might spend too much time on "mundane, immaterial aspects--techanicalities--which have no meaning and are completely superfluous... and they don't have time to get to the big picture." Mr. Rittenhouse stated he was in favor of tight ordinances. He stated: "I don't like ordinances were we are called upon to apply a lot of waivers to make them fit. If we find they are typically not fitting the purpose that we think they should, then I think it's time to change the Ordinance. Once we get away from tight ordinances we start applying lots of interpretation and lots of conditions and we begin to lose consistency and the public and development community no longer knows what to expect of us." Mr. Johnson again brought up the issue of the Commission getting notification of BZA items. It was noted that the Ordinance says that the agenda of the BZA will be presented to the Commission which will offer comments. (Mr. Johnson quoted Section 34.4 of the Ordinance.) Mr. Keeler stated that the Zoning AdALL—L L trator has complied with this requirement by notifying the Director of Planning and Community Development who is the Secretary to the Commission. He added that the Commission decided some time ago that staff was to respond to these items and inform the Commission of any items of a "dramatic" nature. Mr. Keeler also stated that if the Commission wishes to change this procedure and wants to provide direct comment to the BZA, then staff will no longer provide comment so as not to risk being in disagreement with the Commission. Mr. Johnson disagreed with the statement that the Secretary of the Commission was actually a part of the Commission. He also stressed that it was not his intent to discourage staff comment on these items. Mr. Keeler noted that there is often very little time between when staff gets notice of BZA agendas and when comments are needed. 2,-0 June 26, 1990 Page 17 Mr. Rittenhouse pointed out that if the Commission is to make comments to the BZA, it should be prepared to establish a basis for making those evaluations. He noted that these items would not have the benefit of a staff report. Mr. Wilkerson indicated he was in favor of the procedure remaining as it has been. He stated: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.,, Mr. Johnson agreed with Mr. Wilkerson but noted that after just having had a discussion about the sanctity of the Zoning Ordinance, "we turn around and say 'It ain't so sacred." Mr. Wilkerson felt the procedure was in compliance with the Ordinance because the Secretary is a member of the Commission. Mr. Rittenhouse asked Mr. Bowling to comment. Mr. Bowling stated it was the Commission's choice to make. Mw. Huckle asked how the Commission would choose which issues on which to offer comment. Mr. Rittenhouse agreed and pointed out that by not commenting on all of the items, the Commission would then be making a statement by its silence on some items. No decision was reached and the item was to be discussed again. There being no further 9:45 p.m. DS , the meeting adjourned at Secretary .;25,1 I