1973-11-2711-27-73
An adjourned meeting of the Board of Supervisors of Albemarle COunty, Virginia,
was held on November 27, 1973, at 4:00 P.M. in the Board Room of the County Office
~Building, said meeting being adjourned from November 15, 1973.
Present: Messrs. Stuart F. Carwile, Gerald E. Fisher, J. T. Henley, Jr., William C.
Thacker, Jr., Gordon L. Wheeler and Lloyd F. Wood, Jr. (Mr. Carwile and Mr. Wood
arriving at 4:10 P.M.)
Absent: None
Officers present: County Executive and County Attorney.
Mr. Wheeler said this meeting was being held for a discussion of the school construc-
tion program and the 1974-75 school budget.
Mr. Carl Van Fossen said the school board had sent to the Board several times a
resolution asking that plans for a western high school be approved. They need to discuss
financing of this project with the Board in order to determine how to proceed.
Mr. Clarence McClure said the school board passed a resolution on October 8 asking
for approval to proceed with plans for construction of a western high school. He said
plans for.a school of this size will take several months. Mr. McClure asked for an
indication from the Board as to whether the school board can expect approval of a
western high school and if so, can they obtain approval of funds to proceed with the
planning stages. If this is not to be approved, the school board must make other plans.
~-- Albemarle High School is full. In two more years it may be too full to operate as it
is being operated at this time. In the original plans which began five or six years ago,
the school board moved toward the middle school concept. They had hoped that by 1975
they would have a second high school. Reorganization to the middle school concept
would then have allowed them to make Jouett, Henley, Burley and the new southside schools, as
middle schools. The ninth, tenth, eleventh and twelfth grades would be divided between
the two high schools. Now, if the school board moves as far as possible with their
reorganization next year, the ninth grade will be at Jouett and they will be operating
three full middle schools, Henley, Burley and the southside middle school. That is the
item of greatest concern at this moment.
Mr. Wheeler said he assumed that if the Board is going to approve plans for a
western high school and whatever Other projects are needed in the next few years, the
Board is faced with a bond referendum.
Mr. Batchelor said the staff has been studying the c~apital outlay program for several
months to determine how much capital will be needed each year and how this financing can
best be handled. They have been trying to keep as much of this as possible on a payBas-
you-go basis. The new high school cannot be accomplished in this manner. Certain
elementary schools and additions to other schools can be paid in this manner. To obtain
$6.5 million dollars, the Board will need to go to a bond issue, either selling to the
State Supplementary Retirement System or on the open market.
Mr. Wheeler asked the total figure for a high school.
392
Mr. McClure said he felt $6.5 million is close to being correct for a western high
school. There are other projects which will need funding, namely; additions to Meriwether
Lewis and Crozet Elementary, a new south elementary and additions to Broadus Wood.
He said the school board had set 1974 as the date needed for additions to Broadus Wood,
however, this may be moved to 1977.
this date may be moved off further. The additions to Crozet and Meriwether Lewis are not
as pressing as the school board had once thought. At the time the school board was making
all their plans for western Albemarle, they' had thought a large industry was moving into
that area. That has not materialized. The reorganization plan will take the sixth grades
out of Meriwether Lewis and Crozet and give extra growing time. The School board will
look at the overall plan late next spring and make a decision at that time as to what the
updated five year building program will be. He said the western high school will solve
many problems and some of the other projects could then be delayed.
Mr. Wheeler said the Board, tomorrow night, has two public hearings before them
that if approved, will affect two schools, one in the Ivy section and one in the Shadwell
section.
Mr. Humphrey said both projects allow approximately five years for construction.
Over this five year period, there will be an addition of 80 elementary school children
at each of these locations.
Mr. McClure said the school board was aware of these projects and that was one
reason why an addition to Meriwether Lewis was the next addition to be considered. At
Shadwell this creates a worse situation since the addition of children in that area
due to growth would put the school system in a crunch and probably would push the plans
for the south elementary sChool to be considered before 1976 which had been the expected
date. Mr. McClure said the smaller projects could probably be funded by borrowing money
from the Literary Fund and he did not think there would be any problem obtaining financing
for these projects.
Mr. Van Fossen said the board must also consider inflation. The longer the project
is put off the higher the cost will be.
Mr. Fisher asked how recently the $6.5 million dollar estimate was made. He said
with the recent rise in costs, if the bond issue if approved by the voters, the bid might
be $10 million dollars.
Mr. McClure said this was a good point. He has recently seen elementary school
bids opened at $29 a square foot. In addition to the cost of living, the more stringent
regulations the building code is placing on architects and construction people in the
design of ~hoo~ buildings is causing an increase also. The school board used
approximately a 9.2% increase per year in their estimate. He said they had estimated
the cost to be $6,300,000 in 1975, and in 1977, $6,870,000. Somewhere in between these
should be a realistic figure unless some of the other factors mentioned have influenced
the situation to the point where both of these figures are completely out of line.
With the construction of a new north elementary school,
11-27-73
393
Mr. Wood asked what the county's cost is per square foot at the present time. Mr.
M~Clure said on the last bid opened it was $22 per square foot. Mr. Wood asked what is
~-~projected for the high school. Mr. McClure said he had not figured that cost.
Mr~ Wheeler asked what the square foot cost is on the school now under construction.
Mr. McClure said it is $24 per square foot.
Mr. ThaCker said construction is a guessing game. With the shortages of materials
and labor in this area he would not be surprised to see costs rise 12-15% a year
nstead of 9-10%. Mr. McClure said this is another factor which causes the school board
- g~eat .
concern
Mr. Van Fossen said the school board is trying to justify to the Board the need for
a second high school and how soon it will be needed.
Mr. Wood said he did not want the Board to procrastinate. He is convinced the need
for a second high school is evident and feels the Board can eliminate the possibility of
a bid being received for $10 million, instead of the estimate of $6.5 million, by going
ahead with the project. He said if the need is evident, the Board should back up the
school and move on to a good educational system.
Mr. Carwile said he basically agreed with Mr. Wood. If there is a need, it behooves
the board to proceed before inflation makes the project unreasonable.
Mr.~.Wheeler asked if any members of the school board would like to comment.
Mr. Charles Maupin said if the Board would go to Albemarle and see how crowded it
~_ is now, without the ninth grade being there at this time, they would know there is a need
to start immediately so the western high school will be ready when the need is here.
Mr. Wheeler asked if any of the citizens would care to make a comment.
Mr. Bob Merrill said he would like to see figures on population Projections. This
was a question which was raised last year and he did not feel that the citizens received
a satisfactory answer. He said with the declining birthrate and the negative attitude
of expansion of industries in the county, if the high school is not needed now, the county
should not bid up the scare items. Mr. Wood said if Mr. Merrill would meet him at
Albemarle High School tomorrow morning and spend about two hours there, he would not,
need~,~to see_any 'figures.
Mr. Wheeler said the school board has considered this for many months and they believe
it is necessary to build a western high school. Mr. Merrill asked that figures be quoted.
Mr. Mcclure said at this time, the county has 2700 students in grades nine through twelve.
Moving to the middle school concept, the three middle schools will be at capacity the day
they are opened because they had anticipated a fourth middle school, the Jouett school
which they will use as a ninth grade school. To have 2700 students now, and with any
~'- growth over the next few years, there will be an average of 1500 students for each high
school.
Mr. Merrill asked how many students are involved in the three grades presently at
Albemarle High School. Mr. McClure replied that there are approximately 1875. Mr.
394 11-27-72
Merrill asked if the opening of the technical school had cut that figure. Mr. McClure
said it dis help. That is the safety val~e that has kept the county from being in a
crowded situation now. With 150 students going to that school for one-half day, that has
given extra space at Albemarle while those students are away. He said this fact helped
the school board to think that they will have some extra space at Albemarle High and get
them through 1976. This, plus expansion of a fine arts' wing, the cafeteria and the library
will give a little more room, but not a great deal.
Mr. Van Fossen said to show the reliability of the figures they are using, the~
opened Holtymead school at almost three-fourths of capacity and will be at capacity this
year.
Mr. Wheeler asked how long it will take to make working drawings and go to bid.
Mr. McClure said six to eight months. That is the reason it is important to start with
planning. He said the school staff has finished the educational specifications and updated
these one time.
Mr. Batchelor said if[the plans and specifications can be ready for bid in the fall
of the year, it is more advantageous than waiting until January or March.
Mr. Wheeler asked if the Board approved the planning and held a bond referendum, would
the school board expect to open the school in 1976. Mr. McClure said two years is a short
time to build a school of that size.
Mr. Batchelor said there needs to be a decision as to whether the Board wants to hold~?~
a bond referendun and sell on the open market or whether they want to sell to the
Supplementary Retirement System, which takes no referendum. Mr. Wood asked if the Board
could borrow this amount from the retirement system. Mr. McClure said the Literary Fund
has a limit, not the retirement system.
Mr. Batchelor said the county would receive a better rate of interest by selling on
the open market. Mr. Wheeler asked how much. Mr. Batchelor said one-quarter to one-half
of a percent, which is several hundred thousand dollars cheaper over the length of the
bonds. Mr. Batchelor said the last bond issue on which the county had a referendum and in
the sale of those bonds, the county received a AA credit rating from Standard and Poor's and
Moody. The bids received on those bonds were better in some instances than AAA bonds
sold on the same day for nearly like amounts across the United States. Even though, the
county cannot get a AAA rating because of the annexation laws of Virginia, the County's
bonds sell extremely well on the open market.
Mr. Wheeler asked the Board members if they were ready to make a decision on this
matter today. Mr. Wood asked if he meant approval of working drawings or funding through
a bond referendum or supplemental retirement system. Mr. Wheeler said some decision
is needed. Mr. Thacker said if the Board approves working drawings, they muSt be prepared~
to build the building since there will several hundred thousand dollars in design work.
Mr. Wood asked if the Board decided to hold a referendum, if they had to wait until
this matter is voted on before approving planning. Mr. Wheeler said he thought the Board
can authorize the drawings now, but what the Board would do with those drawings if the
11-27-73
referendum should fail, he did not know.
Mr. Batchelor said if the Board authorizes drawings and holds a public referendum and
it fails, they are in effect telling the people, if this method of financing is not approved
it will be financed from other sources. He said the Board should be candid with the people
and let them know the plans of the Board ...... ~ :.
Mr. Wheeler a~ked Mr. St. John what amount of time would be required before holding
a referendum. Mr. St. John said he would have to look that up.
Mr. Thacker said a bond referendum would be expensive and asked how much it would
_ cost. Mr. Carwile felt it would be $8-$10,000. Mr. Fisher asked how much time it would
take to educate the public to the need for this and sell the referendum. Mr. McClure
said it took 60 to 70 days for the last referendum, going from meeting to meeting and
school to school. He went to about 45 meetings during that time. He also had other
agencies helping with this.
Mr. Wheeler said with the Christmas Holidays, it will be March 1 or March 15 before
a referendum can be held. Mr. Wood felt the Board should hold a referendum since it will
save money on the bond rate and get the support of citizens. He said spring is probably
the proper time to hold a referendum. He did not feel the Board can do this with just a
minimum time for advertising and expect it to pass. Mr. Wood said he would offer a motion
to this effect unless other Board members would like to comment.
Mr. Wheeler said the Board would need to pass the proper resolution. Mr. Thacker
said there is a certain amount of preliminary design work which needs to take place. He
asked Mr. McClure if he could give an estimate of the time required for this before the
architectural firm begins the final design. Mr. McClure said he felt this could be
accomplished in about 30 days. Mr. Thacker asked what that would cost. Mr. McClure said
he was not sure but felt it would be a minor part of the architects work. Mr. Thacker
asked if 30 days is a fair estimate at this time of the year. He felt 45-60 days would
be a better, estimate with'the holidays. Mr. Thacker said the Board may see the need
for the school, but felt they would like to consider the advisability of proceeding with
preliminary work. He said he would like to have a few more figures before making a
recommendation at this time. The Board does have some time if they are not going to hold
a referendum until March. There is a possibility that Mr. McClure can do some preliminary
work and bring figures back to the Board.
Mr. Wood said he felt some of the work has been done. Serving on the site selection
committee, they had selected that site only after having an architect on it and seeing
what site preparation was going to cost. Mr. Thacker said there was more to it than that.
Mr. Wood said he realized this, but some of the work has been done.
Mr. Wheeler asked Mr. McClure if he could have the figures Mr. Thacker wants by the
December 20th meeting. Mr. McClure said he could have an answer by tomorrow.
Mr. Fisher asked that there be some estimate of what this will add to the budget at
the current market rates.
398
11-27-73
Mr. Batchelor said he assumed the Board was considering 20 year bonds and there would
be $750,000 borrowed from the Literary Fund. Mr. Wood also asked that the Board be given
figures if the money is borrowed from the Supplemental Retirement System.
Mr. Van Fossen said the next item the school board would like to discuss is the
budget. The Board had previously asked that this be ready by December 1 and he did not
feel that it can be ready at that time.
Mr. Wheeler asked Mr. McClure if he is familiar with new figures for distribution
of monies from the state. Mr. McClure said yes. Mr. Wheeler asked what the index figure
Mr.
is for the county.. /McClure said the composite index is 60.5% as our share. Mr. Carwile
said 50% is average and we get less. Mr. Wheeler asked if that meant the County would be
receiving less money. Mr. McClure said no. There is a possibility that if the Legislature
enacts all the legislature the State Board of ~ducation is recommending the County will
receive one-half million dollars in additional money in the state formula. They are trying
-to figure what a locality should get on a basis of 50 positions for every 1000 students.
That is one way. The other way is to figure $710 per child for regular classes and between
$236 and $254 additional money for people in vocational programs and people in special
education programs. In addition to that, there is incentive money, and that is 10% of
whatever is spent beyond what the state expects the locality to spend. There is
compensatory education, which includes special reading amd special math teachers, and
when looking at the budget they are combining several items, for example, library books,
driver education, and basic appropriation. This is figured on the basis of either $690,
$700 or $710 per pupil. He said even if funded in the middle range, or at $48 per child,
and if the County did not receive any compensatory money or any incentive money or any
special money, there are capital outlays in the budget which would amount to $90-$100,000.
Even with all of these items left out, and if funded in the middle level, the County
would still realizerS50,000 increase in the basic appropriation.
Mr. Wheeler said this was presented to the Board at the Virginia Association of
Counties meeting and the Board needs to decide if they will support this legislation.
Mr. McClure said the school board always fights the county receiving a composite
index at 60% when someone else is getting one at '45%. Whenever someone makes up a
formula they always put in ability and effort and especially ability. The true tax
value also becomes a part and the County receives a lesser amount from the State .ora
higher percentage to pay locally.
Mr. Van Fossen said there have been a lot of uncertainties in what can be expected
in. funds from the state, and in trying to obtain funds for the new programs which the
school board is going into. At this time, he felt it would be premature to say what
the budget will be. He said Mr. McClure has some further questions as to how the school
board should proceed.
Mr. McClure said it is nerve wracking to have the formula changed. It would be wrong
to put in too little revenue and also wrong to put in too much revenue and at this point
]_]_-27-73
397'
no one knows what the legislature will decide. ~h~ey do guarantee that the locality will
not get less than they received before. He said he would be glad to discuss generally any
~- items in the budget that'the Board would care to discuss. However, he said before
proceeding with the budget, he asked that the Board consider giving approval for
purchase of school buses so they will be received in July. He said for several years
the school board has been trying to have the school buses retired after 10 years of
use. They have not reached this point, but if they purchase 16 new buses this year and
do not have demands which they do not anticipate at this point, they feel they can
achieve this goal. He is thinking about the possibility that all students might stop
driving cars and begin to ride buses. If this happened, they would still have to use
some of the old buses. This year, purchase of sixteen passenger buses will allow the
replacement of 12 buses which are ten years old and four would be added in anticipation
of increased enrollment and possibly lower efficiency as more schools are opened. Most
buses-come to the schools full, not overcrowded, at this time. Last year he said the
buses cost about $8,000 each and he has received indications that they may cost $9,700
this year. They have budgeted $144,000 for these buses.
Mr. Batchelor said no appropriation would be needed since they will not be paid
for until after July 1. The Board only needs to approve the advance purchase.
Motion was offered by Mr. Carwile to allow-the school administration to purchase
16 buses with funds to come from the 1974-75 budget. The motion was seconded by Mr. Wood
and carried by the following recorded vote:
AYES: Messrs. Carwile, Fisher, Henley, Thacker, Wheeler and Wood.
NAYS: None.
Mr. McClure said the school board has not reviewed his budget and made any recommen-
dations at this time. He said he did not think that anyone knows what the cost of
living increase has been over the past year. With the cost of inflation and the scarcity
of certain items it will hurt some of the low paid poeple more than the higher paid
people. He asked for an indication from the Board as to what increase may be expected
in salaries. Mr. Batchelor said the staff has been working on an index to try to
d~velop figures. They have received figures that show the cost of living index went
up 13% and other figures that show only 7.5%. He, suggested that Mr. -McClure include
fi~ure~-~.and~the%'..Board.~.~make .adjustments~on ~satarieSon a blanket basis.
Mr. McClure said teachers salaries are the highest item in the budget since there
are more teachers than anything else. He said the county school board has not been able
to recruit many blacks because the city's salary scale is better. He said using the
same increase that was approved by the wage control board last year, it would cost
$700,000. He said Mr. Batchelor had mentioned a 13% increase in the cost of living and
· he is talki about a 5.5% increase in salaries. He did not think that was an extravagant
figure. He said everyone knows the cost of fuel has increased. He had talked with
several oil companies and been told that gas and fuel will increase 15-100%. He said
the County may be faced with this at some time in the future.
3,98
Mr. Wheeler asked if the schools have enough fuel to carry them through the winter.
Mr. McClure said there is not an overabundance now, since the deliveries are not as consistent
as they have been. He said the oil companies who have been glad to have u's in the past
because they had a place to store any extra fuel are not glad to have us as customers
because they do not have extra fuel.
Mr. Fisher said he had read that 16 school districts in the Tidewater area discussed
yesterday shortening the school year by 10% because of the fuel shortage. He asked
if this had been considered.
Mr. Van Fossen said unless the State Department of Education makes a change, they
are required to have 180 teaching days. Mr. Fisher asked if they-were operating under
the same laws that we are. Mr. Van Fossen said he did not think'they could do this
unless the state makes some change. Mr. Fisher asked if it would be feasible at this
point to consider this if the state would allow this. Mr. Van Fossen said he did not
feel the County is faced with this now. If we continue to have mild weather we will not
be faced with that. If it does come, we may have to operate a four-day week or a shorter
school day. We have to look at some alternatives.
Mr, Henley asked if it would save by having a shorter school day. Mr. Van Fossen
said yes, the schools are operated on a clock system and the clocks have been adjusted so
the heat comes on later and goes off earlier. There is a lower temperature throughout
the day now. One thing that could effect the county is if the students stopped driving
personal cars and started riding the school buses.
Mr. McClure said he had been told that he should-issue an order that students do
not drive to school. He said this would cause a problem if he did. He said if faced
with a real crisis, the State Department of Education will have to face up to the fact
that 180 days is not a magic number. He said he could not see making 'the students suffer
through the summer months in a terribly hot building to make up ti~e. If we find
ourselves in a situation at Christmas time were it does not appear that there will be
enough gasoline or oil, the County may consider closing for a month or six weeks and
asking the State Department of Education to excuse us.
Mr. Wheeler asked if anyone else had a comment to make.
Mr. Francis Springer asked if there would be any savings realized if the children
went by bus to the nearest school. Mr. McClure said the county does not have any unnecessa_r~
busing, such as districts who bus for racial balance. The only unnecessary busing is
running buses in subdvisions. He said most of the schools serve students who are so far
away that it is not practical to ask students to walk to school.
Mr. Springer asked if each child went to the nearest school, how many buses would be
saved. Mr. Van Fossen said this is basically what is being done at this time'. In drawing
the district lines, most children dO go to the nearest school. He said they did redraw
some district lines last year for the Scottsville and Yancey area. Mr. Springer said there
is unnecessary busing there. Mr. McClure said that in redistricting they did not have
11-27-73 399
to add any buses.
A gentleman, who later identified himself as A. D. Dale, said he would like to know
what the pay scale is at the present time. Mr. McClure said there were various levels.
Mr. Dale asked that Mr. McClure quote the bottom and top figure. Mr. McClure said
some of the custodians were earning $400-$500 a month. Mr. Dale asked what the top
figure is. Mr. McClure said with some added responsibilities, the amount is probably
$6,200 a year. Mr. Dale asked what the scale is that the taxpayers of Albemarle
County are paying. Mr. McClure said the teachers pay scale runs from $7,400 to $11,286.
For administrative personnel, from $25,000 down to $12,000. Mr. Dale said the Board is
worrying about those-people not receiving enough to live on. He asked what the taxpayers
are supposed to do. He said the Board is putting an impossibility on the taxpayers.
Most farmers can °nly live and pay their taxes if they work at another job. He said he
has been in Albemarle County for 27 or 28 years and most of the years he has lived here
he~has hadt~net earnings of $1,200. He asked that the Board give serious consideration
and justice to the taxpayers.
Mr. Wood asked if Mr. Dale is considering applying for the land use tax. Mr. Dale
said this was just a joke. Last year, his land was assessed @ $800 an acre. Mr. Wheeler
asked how many acres he owned. Mr. Dale said he and his two children owned 237 acres
and the taxes increased five times. Mr. Wheeler said this Board has passed two
ordinances which should help. One is the Land Use Tax which goes into effect in 1975
and the other is Real Estate Tax Exemption for Elderly Persons. He said the Board must
take into consideration, during preparation of the budget, what is best for all of
the citizens.
Mr. Merrill said he felt Mr. Dale had made a pertinent point. He also is on a fixed
income and he said the Board had given the school board no guidelines and he felt the Board
should tell them that they could spend only 90% of last year's budget. He said that is
the type of guidance the taxpayers are looking for. He said the Board has almost given
them a blank check. Mr. Wheeler said he was not willing to do this. He does not feel
that is proper since he feels the school board has the responsibility to turn over to
the Board a budget which they think is sufficient to operate schools properly in Albemarle
County. It is then the responsibiltiy of the Board of Supervisors to make a decision as
,--to whether it should be cut, etc.
Mr. Springer said that is not what Mr. McClure had asked for. Mr. Wheeler said
he had asked for some guidelines on the cost of living which Mr. Batchelor will furnish him.
Mr. Springer said that the cost of government in Albemarle County has more than doubled
in the last six years. During that time, one of the biggest industries in this state
~-eliminated its dividends and Only recently restored a small portion. The C & O and others
l_ have also cut their dividends. With shortages and lay-offs there will be a lot of
unemployment and it will affect a lot of Virginians during this coming year.
Mr. Wood said he had come here today to discuss the future of a western high school.
400
He feels the need is here. He said if you get into dividends, our dividend in Albemarle
County is our children and he does not want to see a dividend cut in education. He wants
those dividends to be increased.
Mr. Henley said dividends were a thorn in his side, because people with a lot of
stock are not paying any taxes on these, and his land is being taxed.
Mr. Wheeler said Mr. St. John is preparing a resolution for a bond referendum
for a western high school and as soon as the board receives the figures which were
asked for earlier in the meeting, the Board will make a decision as to whether or not
to go ahead with preliminary drawings. Mr. Batchelor will also furnish figures on a
cost of living increase.
Mr. Batchelor said he needed to discuss legal matters with the Board and asked that
they adjourn into executive session. The chairman entertained such a motion, which was
made by Mr. Wood, seconded by Mr. Fisher and carried by the following recorded vote:
AYES: Messrs. Carwile, Fisher, Henley, Thacker, Wheeler and Wood.
The Board reconvened.
On motion by Mr. Wood, seconded by Mr. Fisher, this meeting was adjourned until
4:00 P.M. on November 28, 1973, in the Board Room of the County Office Building. The
motion carried by the following recorded vote:
AYES: Messrs. Carwile, Fisher, Henley, Thacker, Wheeler and Wood.
NAYS: None.
Chairman